Elves forced to battle

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Miriel, Oct 20, 2003.

  1. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

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    Absolutely. He must have agreed with Galadriel and therefore that's why Haldir said what he said. :)
     
  2. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    Ok. Sounds good to me
     
  3. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

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    Great. No, as Turin tried to say earlier, this is a "tired subject" because the question has been answered. :D
     
  4. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    okok, enough with it then. We stop posting today!
     
  5. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    It's ever the same: the party ends when I show up.
     
  6. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    Don't mean to break open the subject but I would like to comment on Galadriel's thoughts during the war of the ring.

    Unfinished tales clearly states that Galadriel was under the assumption that she was banned forever from Valinor because
    of her leading part in the Noldor's rebellion. I think it was very much
    in her interest to keep the world of men (where she was stuck, according to her beliefs) alive to see another day.
     
  7. Nienor

    Nienor Administrator Staff Member

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    That's true. It would have been very much to Galadriel's benefit to save Middle Earth. It was her home at the time.

    But my assumption is that Galadriel could have returned after Sauron was defeated the first time. Most of the other Nodorian refugees did. She chose to tarry in Middle Earth.
     
  8. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    yes, I think it was her pride that kept her from doing that
    she did that that after the war of wrath too.
     
  9. evkl

    evkl New Member

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    I think the whole point of bringing the Elves to Helm's Deep was to just reforge the alliance between Elves and Men and bring out the point of just how BAD things have gotten--"the elves are back with the men, so we're all SCREWED." (style mindset.)
     
  10. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    hehe, yeah.

    I didn't like the story change though.
    The last alliance was called that way for a reason.
     
  11. evkl

    evkl New Member

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    I think it was just called the "Last Alliance" because everyone knew that if they lost, nobody'd be coming back, and if they won (ideally), Sauron wouldn't be back, either. And the Last Alliance was really just a last-ditch effort for everyone to save themselves from the Orcs anyway. There was nothing to follow it in terms of war, as they perceved. It was all or nothing; the last possible alliance.
     
  12. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    I think it was called that way because, in the books, it WAS the last alliance between elves and men. elves and men grew estranged from each other in the age that followed.
     
  13. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

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    Extremely good argument there, Evkl. But the question is, was it called the Last Alliance at the time? If it was, you're right. But was it just a name given to the Alliance later on when it was believed that there could be no more alliances?

    Geez, we all like getting technical here don't we? :cool:
     
  14. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    hehe, always love to do so.
     
  15. TheCloneRanger

    TheCloneRanger New Member

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    Kind of like World War I...no body knew there would be a II at the time, so it was just the World War.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2003
  16. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    I think it was called the last alliance because although it turned out to be a victory, the elves lost almost all. What was left of them went to the havens in the following age and sailed into the west.
    Because of that, a second alliance on this scale was impossible to achieve. ( Elrond says this in the council of elrond) ( book version)
     
  17. Glorfy_of_Imladris

    Glorfy_of_Imladris Mysterious Glorfy

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    Or just the Great War :D

    ... I think the Last Alliance was called like that because it was their Last hope; if the Alliance failed, the war would be lost.
     
  18. Eowyn

    Eowyn Shieldmaiden

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    I think that you all are going off topic... :D

    On topic: I think that Galadrial when she said do we leave them alone. part, that was asking for his agreement and being up the idea so that when the elves showed up you wouldn't be confused on where they came from (In other words for movie reasons to caring on the plot) And the part where Haldir saying about Elrond senting a message, I think that was to make you like Elrond more and make it so that you knew that Elrond was a good guy( I think that is more movie reasons)
     
  19. will

    will New Member

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    It doesn't really matter who send them exactly because I feel that it was a decision made by both Elrond and Galadriel because they talk about the elves assistance in general....Haldir saying that he brings word from rivendel doesn't mean they were send only by Elrond....but he was in the Dagorlad battle so he would know most about the 'last alliance between men and elves' which i feel is honoured here.
     
  20. Devious

    Devious New Member

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    I think Im going to have to rewatch the extended edition of TTT to try and work this out...

    Is there no interviews/scenes which say exactly where they are from?