Elves forced to battle

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Miriel, Oct 20, 2003.

  1. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    I am a true elf fan. I love everything about them. But a point was brought to my attention that I must ask anyone and everyone to disscuss and debate. When the elves helped out in the battle at Helm's Deep were they forced to come or did they come without being asked? My friend told me the other day that she thought Gandalf went to Elrond and forced him to make his troops aide the Rohans in the HD battle and I was wondering is that true??
     
  2. mithrandir

    mithrandir Gentleman Scholar

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    I don't recall there being anything in either the books or the films that would suggest force was involved. It certainly would be out of character for Gandalf the White to force his will on anyone - especially a whole people.
     
  3. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    But how did they know to come and where as well? Elves are a mystical people but not even they could know exactly where and when to come without knowing and Theoden king made it clear that nobody would come to them so he couldn't have asked them to come
     
  4. mithrandir

    mithrandir Gentleman Scholar

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    I suspect the elves were watching the events of middle earth fairly closely even if they were gathering themselves to leave. Just because they weren't visbily involved doesn't mean they had no idea what was going on.
     
  5. mithrandir

    mithrandir Gentleman Scholar

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    And perhaps Gandalf did go to the elves and encourage them to help. That's a lot different than forcing them to assist.
     
  6. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    Well, considering the elves weren't at Helm's Deep in the books, its obviously a change Peter Jackson made. Why he made it? Probably to show that the elves were willing to fight alongside men and help with the cause. Btw, in the movies I think it was a decision made between Elrond and Galadriel, I'm almost positive Gandalf had nothing to do with it. Therefore, it would of been by freewill.
     
  7. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

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    I agree. I doubt that Gandalf had anything to do with it at all. Remember (in the movie) when Galadriel and Elrond were "talking" Galadriel was talking about the quest and the elves leaving Middle-earth, etc. It was mostly her decision I think. But I still rather wonder how she knew that they would be in time... One of those elven things I suppose...
     
  8. Feanor

    Feanor New Member

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    Yea probably, they did have those elven rings of power so who knows. We elves do know alot. lol.
     
  9. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    Gah...ok maybe it was Galadriel. After all she does have that mirror thing...
     
  10. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

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    In TTT Galadriel says do we let them stand alone turing the telepath scene
     
  11. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    yeah...so does that mean she was going to leave them do their own dirty work? Because right when the elves come to HD they say "We bring news from Elrond of Rivendell" so maybe it was his idea
     
  12. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    ehh, I doubt that it is as in depth as you're making it out to be. It was added to the movie, prolly 'cuz PJ thought we would enjoy seeing more of the elves. I'd guess that is where the brain child died.
     
  13. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    lol okaaay...so who sent them?
     
  14. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Assuming that they were Elronds troops from Rivendel I would assume that Elrond sent them. Whether or not he was influenced by anyone is a question that may have no answer.
     
  15. Nienor

    Nienor Administrator Staff Member

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    Santa Claus. :rolleyes:

    I would assume Galadriel or Celeborn received the news from Gandalf. Then decided of their own free will to help the men of Rohan.

    In the book, no elves were at Helm's deep. Instead the battle was won by Huorns (sorta like Ents) Gandalf talked to Treebeard, and he decided to send help. The elves were busy with their own troubles. Lothlorien was beseiged 3 times by orcs. So the elves of Lothlorien would be unable to send help.
     
  16. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    yeah, I know that the elves didn't show in the book, but I wanna know who sent them in the movie!! It's eating me ALIVE!!!!
     
  17. Nienor

    Nienor Administrator Staff Member

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    They have to be Lothlorien elves. Haldir is with them. So I am assuming Celeborn or Galadriel. There's no one else with the authority to send them.
     
  18. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    okie..thats good
     
  19. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

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    Elrond traveled to Rivendell to send them. That's why he says "I bring word from Elrond of Rivendell." It was a scene cut out. But in one of the old trailers you see Elrond at Lothlorien saying "If we do not trust to the strength of men then we trust to the victory of Sauron." Also, I think they should have been rangers instead of elves. That way they would be more consistent.
     
  20. Nienor

    Nienor Administrator Staff Member

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    I think they should have used Huorns. That'd be even more consistent. ;)

    Elrond probably had something to do with the decision to send the elves. But ultimately, I can't imagine he has the authority to send troops from Lothlorien, which some of the elves had to have belonged to (ie Haldir)