elronds ring

Discussion in 'Movies' started by celebrimor, Feb 12, 2004.

  1. celebrimor

    celebrimor Elven Jewel-smith

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    so far i have seen the return of the king 4 times and in the first 3 i hadnt seen elronds ring at all i was really pissed. see they show gandalfs when he puts his hand on frodo's shoulder and in FOTR u see galadriels also the band of her ring in ROTK but i just saw elronds ring the 4th time i saw it. i was so happy~. did anyone else see it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2004
  2. Skyhawk12au

    Skyhawk12au New Member

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    Yeah I saw it, I think that there will be a little spiel about the three rings in the EE, because remember people that haven't read the books don't know that Elrond and Gandalf have the other Three.
     
  3. Aenónar

    Aenónar Elf of Arda Tauréndor

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    hmm, I didn't look for it since I never saw it in the first 2 movies :/
     
  4. celebrimor

    celebrimor Elven Jewel-smith

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    did you notice gandalf's ring? its kinda hard to not find it
     
  5. dwarf tosser

    dwarf tosser "What the Deuce?"

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    People who havent read the books dont know that Gil-Galad gave Narya to him so he could build rivendale and stuff like that

    -dt
     
  6. celebrimor

    celebrimor Elven Jewel-smith

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    good point but in the FOTR prequel they show someone with a red elven ring znd they look the same from TFOTR and ROTK just saying
     
  7. Hiraeth

    Hiraeth New Member

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    I saw Gandalfs ring, but could someone tell me please where did Elronds ring appear? I only saw the movie twice and I didnt see it. I have the 10K replica so it would be nice to see. TX.
     
  8. ElvishTwin

    ElvishTwin Left-handed Scribe

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    The only time I saw Vilya, Elrond's ring, was on Gil-galad in the prologue to the first movie. DT, didn't Cirdan give Narya to Gandalf, Gil-galad give Vilya to Elrond and Lady Galadriel have Nenya from the beginning of the rings? Just curious...

    :dragon:
     
  9. Kuja

    Kuja New Member

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    why did Cirdan give his ring to Gandalf again?
     
  10. dwarf tosser

    dwarf tosser "What the Deuce?"

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    O i see i problem your righht! Vilya is Gil-galad's ring because in elvish it means air. OKOK. Cerdin gave Gandalf Narya because he thoght him to be the wisest of the istari. Keep in mind that the other wizards don tknow of this and he gave it to gandlaf in secret to aid him against sauron. Gandalf gives Narya back to him at the gray havens when at the end of the LOTR trilogy. Cerdin is even seen in the backround on the right of galadriel in ROTK.

    -dt
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2004
  11. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    If I remember correctly,

    Vilya - Ring of Air - Elrond
    Nenya - Ring of Water - Galadriel
    Narya - Ring of Fire - Gandalf

    I know Narya was used to help stoke the "fire in men's hearts", and give them courage during times of distress. Many didn't realize that this was one of Gandalf's greatest contributions to the battles. Recall Minas Tirith, when Denethor told the soldiers to "Flee!" A simple command..."Return to your posts!" from Gandalf, who truely had no authority in Minas Tirith yet, was enough to turn the soldiers on a dime and send them back to fight.

    I don't recall the main uses for Vilya & Nenya. They likely saw great deals of "down time" during FA & SA...it's documented that the three, which were created without the help of Sauron, were put into hiding as soon as Sauron put on The One, because they were made aware of him and his intentions. This is why he never obtained them...they were hidden and not used.

    I don't know as the three were even truely used in the books in TA. I remember Galadriel talking about hers to Frodo in the book, and I think she may have been wearing it...don't recall with certainty. But I don't think they mentioned the other two specifically in LOTR, did they? They certainly were in the movies.

    Can anyone clear this up?
     
  12. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2004
  13. dwarf tosser

    dwarf tosser "What the Deuce?"

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  14. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    CRAP! I meant to point that out. The links I posted were to different versions than those seen in the film, however I think they are no less impressive.
     
  15. Hiraeth

    Hiraeth New Member

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    As far as I remember Nenya was given to Galadriel as a preserver against ageing and decay, which was why Lothlorien stayed fair and green. It was the only elven ring of power which did not change hands. It was made from Mithril and set with a diamond (adamant) and was rhe ring of water.
    Narya and Vilya were originally given to Gil Galad. He gave Vilya to Elrond as his herald. Vilya is the ring of air set with a sapphire and made of (?)gold and had powers of healing.
    Narya was given my GG to Cirdan for safekeeping at the Grey Havens until Gandalf arrived when iy was passed to him as he would need its power to inspire courage and be a beacon of hope for men to follow. As the ring of fire it was set with a ruby (amd has an interesting counterpoint to Saurons theme of dark fire and despair). whew!
     
  16. Hiraeth

    Hiraeth New Member

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    (I ran out of space)
    hope that helps, although I am not so sure the elven rings were not used in secret as Sauron did not have the one ring and was bent on searching for it and the war at hand, e.g. the ford of bruinnen and hems deep (your friends are withe you Aragorn).Both involved *unnatural* use of water and air.
    Apparently the rings when worn could only be seen by ringbearers (Frodo at Lothlorien).
    I think that does it.
     
  17. dwarf tosser

    dwarf tosser "What the Deuce?"

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    i dont think Gandalf would have been able to defeat the balrog with out NArya.

    -dt
     
  18. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    Okay, I did some scrounging around, and found some good info. I don't know if this should kind of become a thread of its own, but much of the info applies to what this thread has turned to...perhaps rename the thread? Anyway, this is alot of info to digest, so feel free to pick and choose through what you find important. That's why I've broken it up into sections.


    Who made them?"It was the Elves of Eregion who made all the rings, except for the One which Sauron forged by himself in Mount Doom.


    After the defeat of Morgoth in the First Age, some of the remaining Noldorin Elves settled in Eregion and built a city called Ost-in-Edhil around the year 750 in the Second Age close to the west gate of the dwarven kingdom of Moria. About the year 1200, Sauron came among the Elves in a fair form using the name Annatar (Lord of Gifts), but with a dark plan to ensnare them. Sauron greatly desired to "persuade the Elves to his service, for he knew that the Firstborn had the greater power [The Silmarillion]." He taught them secret lore, and with this knowledge their craftsmen (a guild called the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, the People of the Jewel-smiths) created the Rings of Power which included the Seven and the Nine. But Sauron had a part in the creation of these rings and he guided the Elves in their making. However, the Three Elven Rings were conceived and made by the Elven-smith, Celebrimbor, alone, and Sauron never touched the Three."



    What did they look like? What were they made from? "Saruman's study of the Rings provides us with useful information as to their appearance. Gandalf recounts the history of the One Ring during the Council of Elrond by recalling the words of Saruman:

    "The Nine, the Seven, and the Three", he said, "had each their proper gem. Not so the One. It was round and unadorned, as it were one of the lesser rings; but its maker set marks upon it that the skilled, maybe, could still see and read." [The Fellowship of the Ring]
    These letters could be seen when the One Ring was heated, as in Frodo's fire where Gandalf confirms his suspicions by making the inscriptions appear as fiery letters of elven script in the Black Tongue.

    We also know the types of gems used for the Three Elven Rings:

    Narya was set with a ruby.
    Nenya was set with a adamant.
    Vilya was set with a sapphire.

    We know that Nenya was made of mithril from the description at the Grey Havens:

    "On her finger was Nenya, the ring wrought of mithril, that bore a single white stone flickering like a frosty star." [The Return of the King]
    What the other Elven-rings were made of is not known. Perhaps, since they were the creation of Celebrimbor alone and apart and different in nature than the other rings they were all made of mithril. But from the above description it seems as if Tolkien is singling out Nenya as distinct and different by saying "the" ring made of mithril - as if implying that the other rings were made of some other material like gold.

    As for the Seven Dwarven Rings, we know that they were of gold from the Silmarillion where it was said "that the foundation of each of the Seven Hoards of the Dwarf-kings of old was a golden ring." However, we do not know what gems were used in the rings.

    As for the Nine, there is nothing written that describes what they were made of or what type of gems they had. Yet, it could be assumed that they too, were of gold.

    The One Ring was, of course, made of gold and was unadorned with no gems, and seemingly smooth except for the inscription made visible when the Ring is heated."



    Why were they made? What were their powers? The reason is tied to the regret the Elves had for the passage of time. The Elves were immortal and were fated to live as long as Middle-earth lasted. As such, the earth changed with the passage of time, and the Elves saw many things that were fair become destroyed and lost by the hurts of evil. Sauron, as tempter, awoke a desire in the hearts of Elves to heal the hurts of the earth and create a paradise on this side of the sea to compare to Valinor - and to be its rulers; whereas in Valinor they were only subjects and below the Valar. The Rings of Power were primarily made to slow the passage of time and preserve their creations of beauty. Yet they had other powers as well.

    Tolkien provides a revealing insight on to the nature of the Rings and their powers in one of his letters:

    "The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. `change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance - this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor - thus approaching `magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron...such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible." [The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]
    The Rings were not made as instruments of war or domination; they could not create lightning bolts or hail storms. Yet, they conferred powers commensurate with that of the user; a Great Ring in the hands of a weak and lesser person could not work effects to the extent of the wise or great. Notice Galadriel's words to Frodo in Lothlórien:

    "Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others." [The Fellowship of the Ring]
    The Elves used the Three Rings to create "islands of timeless beauty" and guard them against the passage of time and evil. Their use can be seen at work at various points :

    Elrond used the power of his ring, Vilya, to cause the flood of the river Bruinen when the Nazgûl tried to capture Frodo.
    Galadriel used the power of her ring, Nenya, to keep a guard on Lothlórien so that none could enter without her leave.
    Gandalf used the power of his ring, Narya, to kindle the hearts and spirits of the enemies of Sauron to do great deeds.
    But the use of the Elven Rings was possible only after Sauron was defeated in the Second Age and his Ring taken and assumed lost. If Sauron regained the One, then all the works of the Elves and the use of their Rings would be subject to the evil will of Sauron.


    What were the powers of the Seven and the Nine? As stated, the Seven and Nine Rings were originally made by the Elves and not evil until Sauron forged the One and later took these rings by war. Their initial purpose was to slow the passage of time and preserve beauty, but since Sauron had a part in their making they became accursed and had evil powers. He gave the rings to different races of Middle-earth to enslave and so control them.

    Sauron gave the Seven to the Dwarves, who proved harder to enslave;

    "they ill endure the domination of others, and the thoughts of their hearts are hard to fathom, nor can they be turned to shadows. They used their rings only for the getting of wealth; but wrath and an over mastering greed of gold were kindled in their hearts..." [The Silmarillion]
    This implies their rings had other powers but were not used probably because this would draw attention to the user and all that he did.

    Sauron gave the Nine to Mortal Men who proved easiest to ensnare. It was said that

    "those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth...They had, as it seemed, unending life, yet life became unendurable to them. They could walk, if they would, unseen by all eyes in this world beneath the sun, and they could see things in worlds invisible to mortal men..." [The Silmarillion]

    According to Letter #131, the Seven and Nine conferred invisibility to the user as well as unending life. However, eventually the user would fade and become a wraith under the control of Sauron, the Dark Lord. However, the Three Elven Rings did not confer invisibility.


    What happened to the rings and who held them? For a brief time, all the Rings of Powers were presumably worn and used in Eregion between the time Sauron left the Elves after the rings were made (1590 SA) and when Sauron forged the One Ring (1600 SA). But as soon as Sauron put on the One Ring, the Elves took off all their rings for they finally saw through the deceptions of Sauron and realized that their creations would only be corrupted and used for evil:

    "But the Elves were not so lightly to be caught. As soon as Sauron set the One Ring upon his finger they were aware of him; and they knew him, and perceived that he would be master of them, and of all that they wrought. Then in anger and fear they took off their rings." [The Silmarillion].
    Some counselled that their rings be destroyed but the Elves could not bring themselves to destroy the Rings - and so they were hid. The Seven and the Nine were separated. Of the Three, Celebrimbor gave one, Nenya, to Galadriel, and the other two, Vilya and Narya, to Gil-galad. In turn, Gil-galad kept Vilya and gave Narya to Círdan of the Grey Havens to hold. An alternate to this version states that during the first Council of the Second Age, it was deemed wise that Elrond receive the ring Vilya and Gil-galad kept Narya until departing to war in the Last Alliance.

    Angered that his plan was revealed and failed, Sauron made war on the Elves to claim the Rings without his help they could not have made. He laid Eregion to waste and sacked the Elvish city of Ost-in-edhil. He then captured and tortured Celebrimbor into revealing where the Rings were hidden:

    "There Sauron took the Nine Rings and other lesser works of the Mírdain; but the Seven and the Three he could not find. Then Celebrimbor was put to torment, and Sauron learned from him where the Seven were bestowed. This Celebrimbor revealed, because neither the Seven nor the Nine did he value as he valued the Three: the Seven and the Nine were made with Sauron's aid, whereas the Three were made by Celebrimbor alone, with a different power and purpose." [Unfinished Tales]
    Using Celebrimbor's body as a battle standard on a pole, Sauron returned with war and overran all of Eriador in search for the Three Elven Rings. But he never found them and only suspected where they were hid. With the help of the Númenóreans, Sauron was finally driven out of Eriador c. 1701 Second Age and there was peace for a long while.

    Sauron's power was later challenged by the Númenóreans and he was taken back as prisoner where through the use of the One Ring he corrupted them and incited them to rebel against the Valar. Then Ilúvatar was called on and the world was changed and Númenor drowned in the ocean. Sauron went down as well, but his spirit fled (with the Ring) back to Middle-earth. When he took shape again he saw how the Númenóreans had grown in strength where their new kingdoms sprang up. He resolved to make war and drive them out before they became too strong. Then the Last Alliance was formed between Elves and Men to battle Sauron. There, before the Black Tower, Barad-dûr, Sauron was thrown down and vanquished in the year 3441 Second Age.

    But after a respite, Sauron's spirit appeared again in the Third Age and threatened the free people in Middle-earth. Around the year 1000 Third Age the Istari, or Wizards, came to Middle-earth to help in the struggle against Sauron. Last to come was Gandalf and Círdan was moved to turn Narya over to Gandalf as he saw that it would be put to better use:

    "Take now this Ring, he said; for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thous shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill." [The Silmarillion]
    So at the time of the story of Lord of the Rings, the Three Elven Rings were in the hands of the Wise; Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel, the Nine Sauron held, as well as four of the Seven (the other three were consumed by dragons), and the One was in the hands of Frodo the Hobbit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2004
  19. celebrimor

    celebrimor Elven Jewel-smith

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    wow that was long..... but i read it all. I always like to reread my history (o' dear how much chaos it caused) of making the 3 rings of power.
     
  20. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    LOL. Yeah, really...I mean, what the hell were you thinking, anyway? I could smell Sauron's evil stench a mile away, and I'm only human. You're an elf for Eru's sake!

    There was, of course, more where that came from, but I didn't want to bog you guys down too much.