Eating Meat or Vegetarian/Vegan?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Mububban, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    So, where do you stand on the consumption of our furry little friends?

    If someone wants to mke a thread specifically on animal rights and activism, please do so. This one is just about meat vs vegetarianism and all things in between.

    Personally I believe humans are omnivores. Meat tastes damn good. I'm all for treating animals humanely and ethically, and encouraging sutainable farming practises etc, but I also loooove eating animals.

    As someone said "I didn't fight my way up the food chain to eat carrots all day long."

    A few questions to kickstart things:

    - do you think meat is murder, or food?
    - what is the most interesting animal you've eaten? (ostrich for me, and kangaroo, yes we eat our national emblem :D
    - do you eat "normal" animals but baulk at other countries eating things like horse, guinea pig, dog etc? if so, please explain

    In some ways I can understand religious fundamentalists and animal rights nutjobs like PETA and ALF. They are all or nothing types. They believe in god 100%, they don't pick and choose what parts to believe and follow. Similarly, all animals should be free, or not. It's a bit rich to say meat is murder "Oh but I still eat fish and I wear leather shoes."

    Personally I subscribe to PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals) :D

    And I have to link this blast from the past (caution - naughty language warning) : http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor
     
  2. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Me to! Heck a greater part of my diet is meat based, If I shifted to vegi foods only I'd probably starve!

    Interesting animal - hmm nope not eaten one unless it got mixed into a sausage without me being told. I mean I guess I could say I've eaten spam - that is pretty exclusive these days :p
    As for the animals we eat, myself I do draw a dividing line between what I consider prey species (ie things I will eat) and species that I won't eat - often via the fact that they are commonly associated within my society (UK) as pets or working animals as opposed to a meat product.
    For me though one big dividing line is association - myself I could eat pork, beef, etc.... but whilst I could hunt that animal and kill it in the wild and then eat the remains I could not go through the process of rearing an animal with the sole intent of slaughter and then eating it. I do support farming and good farming practice because otherwise wild stocks would be devistated (and I wish we'd move to more farmed fishing!) but I know that I could never be a farmer raising cattle for the slaughter - in my mind you've got to cross a mental barrier to do that -- and no matter how much I might love lamb meat you gotta really cross a mental barrier to slaughter young livestock.
    As for the meat is murder line that is - eh - endlessly debatable depending upon how you interpret the meaning and is endlessly open to counter attacks with showing of poor captive conditions that animals are kept in for the meat industry (battery chicken farms are not nice places)

    No - I don't think I ever will fully understand PETA considering that they appear to be very self conflicting with their moral stories and their own internal policies - mixed with such shockers as trying to call fish sea kittens (I mean that has just got to prove that some nutter isn't just at the top but all the way through the group :p).
     
  3. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    Hi, I'm a vegetarian.
    The reason why I don't eat any meat is mainly because of the climate change. Methane is one of the main reasons why there is global warming. As for the fish, they use nets that destroy the bottom of the sea, and the animals that are caught in the nets which were not supposed to often die. In addition, by fishing on a large scale, what is happening now, we are are disturbing the animals' food chain.
    I don't really have a problem with people eating animals, there's been a long tradition of humans eating non-human animals -- but I don't like how the animals are treated on the farms these days. I've read accounts, it's truly "inhumane." I'm not sure how developed an animals reasoning is, but to quote Jeremy Bentham: The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but rather, "Can they suffer?"
    The whole purpose of their lives is like.. to feed us. As you guys may not want to give up meat and I don't blame you, could buy free range meat and eggs. Or you could also be a flexitarian.

    Here's a passage from the book "Eating Animals":


    I've only been a vegetarian for half a year. And I've eaten pretty gross stuff before. I'm ashamed to admit I tasted kangaroo before. Theyre so cute how could I've ever managed! Sorry Australians. :p
    I've also eaten fried... You know what? I can't come up with the name! Seriously, I think I've got alzheimer or something, keep forgetting things. It's small and its a sort of bug I think and it's poisonous and dangerous and lives in the desert..

    scorpions!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  4. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    As it happens to be, I do own a cook book that contains a recipe for gunea pig. I should try that^^

    I really don't care about meat consumption. I was born and grew up in a rural area. Meat production, as it were, was not uncommon. A friend of mine lived next to a traditional butcher's. And, albeit a bit smaller, I have killed a number of animals in the past.

    Ow, and among the things I've eaten in my life, there's elephant, kudu, bush mean (unspecified) and, being Dutch, horse. I was offered lightly cooked & roasted mouse (whole, one a stick) once. That sort of drew the line for me >.>
     
  5. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    wow elephant. How was that?
     
  6. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Well, it was dried meat (in the South African fashion) - so there's no real specific taste I could specify to be honest. It was also in 1997 - that's a long time ago :p
     
  7. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I've always regarded the methane argument as being a last ditch attempt by the oil industry supported science to trying push the blame away from oil and industry and onto something else. I keep that viewpoint because I recall that whilst people do intensively farm we also devastated wild herds - culling their numbers down drastically from what they once were (through overhunting). So I think the world has a great capacity to support the methane component because it was always there in the past - unlike oil burning and other industries ;)
     
  8. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    I will look for some proof, you sceptical soul!!
    So you can't shush your conscience anymore:p
     
  9. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    I think that if meat is murder every other animal that is a carnivore should be tried in court. Animals eat other animals even. Yeah maybe we indulge too much on meats but stopping completely seems unnecessary to me. We just need to cut back on it and proportions of food. At least in the US depending on where you go for dinner a restaurant can give a heaping pile of everything that only a dinosaur could eat.
     
  10. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    I'm all for animal rights.

    But humans need meat. We need meat, not the amounts that people over here stuff into their mouthes, 7 days a week - that's way too many times way too much meat (not because of the dead animals but because it really is unhealthy) - but yes, the stuff meat contains, humans need.

    My brother became a vegetarian once (he's about 2 meters tall and is active in the martial arts) and after a month he was weak all the time, exhausted and like sore the whole time. (Yes he did try to make up for the proteins and stuff) He just has too many muscles to live completely meat-free, I guess.

    Humans eat meat, we always have and always will. Tigers eat meat too and no one blames them: The only difference, they only eat as much as they need, whereas we eat a lot more than we need or than is healthy.
    So I appeal to you all of the western 'too-much-for-our-own-good'-culture: Eat less meat, but don't give it all up ;)

    =>
    - do you think meat is murder, or food?
    Food mostly.
    - what is the most interesting animal you've eaten?
    My own rabbit? ^^ lol, no I've never (consciously) eaten anything out of the ordinary
    - do you eat "normal" animals but baulk at other countries eating things like horse, guinea pig, dog etc? if so, please explain
    I do not and I'd love to eat horse.

    Should I mention that my uncle is a butcher and my dad had to help in the butchery as long as he lived at home? I grew up with dead animals greeting me at my favorite cousin's house :p


    P.S.: Oh and I am of the very difficult opinion that "If you can't bear to kill it (or watch it die) you shouldn't eat it"
    I can't stand those people who make a fuss about their children (age 9 -99) getting taught where the meat comes from because of the 'poor animals' and the 'poor children' can't handle it and stuff - but who on the other hand serve spaghetti bolognese every second day and eat hamburger and stuff. Darn it, that red stuff we buy are dead animals, and the red sauce it lies in reall is blood and yes it was alive once. And maybe the pig was called 'Babe'.
    Why would I lie to my child about where meat comes from? The earlier they know that animals have to die for us, the better for them. Maybe they'll respect the 'scarifice' then and won't take it for granted. / rant over.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  11. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I love meat.Mostly red meat and pork meat a lot.Although generally in Greece we do eat a lot of red meat,we also like lambs,sheep and chicken meat.

    The thing is to take everything moderately.You can't just live by eating meat all the time.You need to eat vegetables and other food.

    The thing is,I like to eat such animals,but I can't hunt them or kill them.I would like to hunt wild boars,but so far I haven't done so.

    As for dogs and other animals,well no thanks.There are cannibals in Africa who eat human meat and I'm not just talking about tribes with spears and shields who live in huts,I'm talking about armed soldiers who fight in cities.That doesn't make it right and that doesn't make it good.I mean....yes eating animals is good,but WHAT kind of animals?I'm sure not all animals are supposed to be for normal every day eating.Of course that's not cannibalism but sometimes it can be a little bit equal to that if they go eat...I don't know...weird animals.
     
  12. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    All humans would eat human meat in order to survive.
    If I'd die and my friends are starving and they have no access to any food, I'd be upset if they didn't eat me!
     
  13. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I also notice I feel weaker than I did before. You can get proteins from different things and you also gotta get vitamin B12 and enough iron, I think I lack iron, because I sometimes go black before my eyes and feel dizzy as if I'd faint.
    Apart from that, I feel good, and I'm pretty sure you can substitute everything (apart from B12 but there are pills for that), you just have to pay more attention to your diet.

    My grandparents are actually farmers and especially my grandmother gets kinda upset with me that I don't eat any meat anymore.
    And every time I feel a little ill my mom goes: "its because you don't eat meat!"
     
  14. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I think if you're going to cut out a serious part of your former diet you've got to take proper medical advice on getting the full balance restored. Feeling faint and near blackouts are not good for you and a sign that something is missing. We can speculate and give ideas, but the best thing would be to consult a dietitian (or whatever fancy name doctors call it). They might be able to point you in the direction of some lesser known plant food groups as well as give you good advice on the use of pills for supplementing.
     
  15. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    I read 'Eating Animals'... but that's mainly because i like the author lol.

    Factory farms are terrible, that's what the book taught me. I mean I still believe humans should eat meat, but i also think the animals should get better treatment before they're eaten. but considering practically everything is factory farming they don't get this treatment.
     
  16. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeah if PETA claim to be all about getting animals back to nature, I don't understand how they can think a carnivore eating a vegan diet is in any way natural.

    But that's straying into other areas....I might make a separate thread on PETA and animal rights etc.

    As a personal choice I only buy free range eggs, but I don't have the budget to buy free range meats. My wife and I don't actually eat much meat overall, we tend to eat small meat portions and have mroe vegies on the plate than animal. But I gots to have me some meat!

    Re the shredding of male chicks - last I heard the industry standard was to euthenase them with carbon dioxide.

    Kangaroo tastes good! if you cook it right. Very lean, lovely with a black pepper crust mmm....but as it's very low in fat, it's very easy to overcook it and make it tough and chewy.

    Agreed.

    I also can't stand how prissy modern people are about meat. Some of my workmates won't touch meat off a bone, and as far as they want to know, meat comes in plastic trays from a supermarket fridge.
    Ffs, have we lost that much touch with reality? I've never slaughtered an animal myself, but I've grown up in Australia. I've visited working farms. I know where meat comes from without getting icky about it. Humans are a very strange bunch.

    Again, I totally agree. I respect nature because I understand how it all interacts.
     
  17. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Honestly its a case of out of sight out of mind with regard to animal food production - especially for people that grow up in towns where milk and food comes from the supermarket and cows are only a hinted at creature in textbooks (which results in hilarious results when those people end up in media and you get the case of male cows with udders......bulls are apparently a totally separate species - probably with female bulls as well ;))

    Though I'll admit that if it came down to it I'd not be too keen to get all icky in carving things up (though there is also a good dose of not having a clue what to do mixed in there as well)


    noo please noo - the less attention we pay to them the more chance that the crazy seakitten people will just go away....... maybe they'll all become sciencetologists
     
  18. 3rdProphecy

    3rdProphecy New Member

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    I don't think meet is murder, that is if the meet you are eating comes from sustainable farming, but if the meal is a result of hunting i am not interested. In ancient times we were hunters but in these modern times have no excuse and have to be humane.

    We are who we are because of meat. And genetically our bodies have been programmed over the thousands of generation of our exist to digest meat to feed and build our body from amino-acids, the basic building blocks of corporeal beings and it is only available in protein.

    However, i don't think that we are suppose to eat bacon everyday, or that the beef patty on a hamburger is any healthier that the diet of a vegetarian. Even though i think meat is esential to our diet and our health i do believe that at this point in time vegeterians are healthier than the meat eating folk because of how the meat eating folk consume and prepare their food.
     
  19. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    It should be alright, but I'll have a medical check up either way!
    I even had these near blackouts when I were a omnivore, now just more often..
     
  20. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    I have those too, but they don't bother me any more. It happens when my circulation is low (e.g. in the mornings) or when I don't have enough fluids in the system. I never went to the doc for it, but if you say that the frewuency increases now, you probably should check it out. (Tell me if it's a mystic deathly illness I should immediatly cure, will you ;) ?)

    I find myself partly disagreeing.
    a. farming over here is mostly not at all humane. It's pure stress for the animals as long as they live, and it's really icky all in all what amounts of antibiotics they put into the pigs for example before they kill the poor souls.
    b. The hunting over here is limited and the reason behind it is not the food but the population control (which we wouldn't have to do, had we not killed all the predators, but anyways...) We could leave the dead deer to rot then, but eating them is just as well. (And they had a better life than the farming animals, you can taste that too)

    How this is in other parts of the world I do not know