Driving

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Druid of Lûhn, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    This thread has two purposes:
    1) I just passed my driving test theory exam, so I can get a temporary driving license very soon.
    2) When do you think that people should be allowed to drive (what age) and relative to that, what should the minimum age for drinking be (can be separated between spirits and non-spirits).

    I am very pleased with the belgian system: you get to start drinking at 16 (non-spirits, spirits at 18), so you're still with parents/guardian and you can get used to the novelty of it before driving, which is at 18.
    I don't think that the basics of drinking and driving (but not at the same time) should be more than 18, although I could understand that spirits be pushed back to 21.
     
  2. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    been driving for 3 years now, good luck on getting license :p
    I think you should be allowed to drive as you can pass the exam, and as you start being criminaly punishable (at age of 16)
    As far as I am concerned about the spirits, the later - the better aka 21.
     
  3. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Driving and the ability to transport ones self around is very much a core part of modern life in many nations. Whilst in towns and built up urban areas one can get away without driving for some time and indeed I know several people who live in London and didn't drive for many years simply because owning car wasn't an advantage (traffic) and the public transport was more than good enough.

    16 is the age most can choose to leave school and enter the job market; as such its a core time that they need the ability to move themselves around; especially if they are not in a highly built up area. Thus these days they need a car or at least access to one. Otherwise even if they can get a job chances are they can't easily get to it (gone are the days that you lived at or very close to your workspace).


    Drinking is a trickier issue and my feeling is that its something you want to ease people into not hold as a lofty goal out of reach (the more lofty it is the more people go very silly when they get there). In the UK there are laws that allow younger people to have a single pint with a full meal (I think its 16) with parent/guardians present - with the actual drinking age at 18 (actually pretty much everything is open at 18). I think setting the drinking age higher could potentially help with avoiding some of the binge drinking problems that the UK does have with younger generations since at least it would keep them out of the clubs - but on the flipside supermakets have made drink so cheap that they can easily get hold of large quantities for not very much in cost.
     
  4. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Here we can start driving lessons at 16 and get the actual license at 18. I've had mine for 4 years now, love it :D
    But I think that 18 is a good age. I don't want too young people out in the traffic. Mostly cause there can occur some irresponsible behaviour the younger they are. But of course even grownups can behave irresponsibly..
     
  5. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    As to leaving school at 16, that is not in most countries: we have to stay until at least 18 here, but some people – who fail their year over and over – can even go to their early 20s. As to getting about: in Belgium you can use a small moped without a license at age 16 and a slightly bigger one with a license at age 16.

    Keeping alcohol as a distant barrier makes people despair and start early and get very drunk once they've passed it. The UK and central european ones that ease you into drinking are better (you're right OR about the pint at meal-times with a parent/guardian).

    And I know that Sweden and Finland start driving really early (as you said Emelie) but still only get the license later. I think that that is a good idea too.
     
  6. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    The main argument for older drivers is more to try and reduce the number of drivers on the road and congestion than anything else. When it comes to safety its a mad area - for example people have to get a new licence as they get older, but I think they only need one re-test when they are somewhere between 60 and 80 and thereafter are considered fine if they pass. It's somewhat a shock to think that for such a dangerous and changable area that you could potentially only ever be tested and verified to be able to drive twice in your life.

    With all the variation in the power of cars and also in driving conditions I honestly think that there should be more re-testing over ones life span; or at least catchup courses and such to ensure that people remain safe drivers.
     
  7. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    I forgot that we can start drinking at 18, cant buy liquor at a store until you're 20. But you can get into clubs and order drinks at bar at 18. But we can have sex at 15 :D

    i think the drinking age around 18 is fine too.. shouldnt be too young, but there's really no point to having it too late either.
     
  8. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    In Australia you can get your learning drivers permit at 16, but you can't get your full license at 18. Also the drinking age is 18 here. I honestly think it's a bad system. People should not be able to both drink and drive suddenly on their 18th birthday. This is why so many alcohol-related accidents happen. Because you people are idiots! I think that you should be able to get learners at 15 and full license at 16. Then you have two years to get over the excitement of having your license so when you can start drinking hopefully people won't be as stupid.
     
  9. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    Yeah it's a tough question....

    Here it used to be you could get your learner's permit to drive (with a licensed driver beside you in the vehicle) at 16 and then do your on-road licensing test whenever you were ready. If you passed it, you were fully licensed to drive. Now we have a "graduated licensing system". To get your G1 licence, you have be at least 16, pass a written test on the rules of the road and take an eye test. If you pass both tests you gain a restricted driviers license: absolutely no blood alcohol level is allowed when driving, you can't drive between midnight and 5 am, you cannot drive on the big highways or expressways and you have to have another driver of at least 4 years experience in the seat beside you. This person must have a blood alcohol level less than some stated level. After 12 months (8 mos if you attend a recognized driving school) you can take your road test on basic skills. If you pass you gain a G2 licence. The G2 is less restricted and you can drive on any road and without another licensed driver in the seat beside you though there is still a requirement of a 0 blood alcohol level. People 19 and under still have additional restrictions too about how many people of the same age can still be in the car. After 12 months you can take the second road test on more advanced driving skills. If you pass it, you get a regular G licence to drive ordinary vehicles like cars. To drive bigger trucks, transport trucks, motorcycles etc you need to apply for special licences.
    The legal drinking age for the province I live in is 19.

    I think the graduated licensing is much better than the old system for keeping young and new drivers out of trouble but the best thing is just to gain experience on the road, particularly with winter driving. I can't count how many times winter driving skills alone have kept me out of serious trouble.

    As for preventing people from drinking and driving I don't think the legal drinking age has anything to do with it. Everybody knows you shouldn't do it and plenty of people go out and do it anyway. Not all of them are young or are new drivers either. Still there have to be legal restrictions in place so the law has some way of disciplining these people and so that the consequences discourage others. I know of two people who've been caught DUI (driving under the influence). Thank God they didn't kill anyone in the process. They were immediately arrested (and spent the night in jail), their cars impounded (VERY expensive to get those cars out of the impound), they were prosecuted in a public court and had their driver's licence suspended upon their arrest. Both had to get an "interlock" machine (one you blow into and that analyzes your breath for alcohol - the car won't start or the engine shuts down if you blow positive) put in and maintained at their own expense to get their licence back and that had to stay in for 9 months. Apparently the car is extremely irritating and difficult to drive with the machine in place too. Even after the interlock was removed they still suffered consequences. They had to get high-risk insurance and extremely expensive insurance coverage just to be able to drive.
    That one arrest follows them for years afterward and they got off lucky. Imagine the consequences that would have followed if they'd managed to kill someone while driving....

    Seriously, I think the best thing that anybody can do for themselves is to suffer the consequences of bad decisions when they're cheap. Don't let anybody bail you out of tough situations that you put yourself in. Only by learning that you WILL be held accountable for your stupidity can you be convinced that all of those things you were told "could" happen, can happen to you. If more people really believed that, I think we'd have far fewer problems with alcohol-related driving offences, regardless of the age of the people involved.
     
  10. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    Well I just got my learner's license today:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    I have driven a few times in a circle already. It's not too bad, except for that damned clutch!

    As to our system of getting your license:
    There is a theory test that you have to pass with at least 80% of the questions correct, as well as an eye test. This can be done at age 17. If you pass those, you can get your learner's license 36 months, which is valid for 36 months. You have to have a guide by you (8 years experience, belgian citizen, no alcohol) and cannot drive between 10pm and 6am on Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays or [before] bank holidays. The other choice is getting the 18 months driving license, but you have to be 18, have to assist minimum 20 hours of driving school, but you can drive alone.
    You can then pass the test at least three months later and must be aged 18. You can then drive.

    I do not, however, think it's a good idea to start driving early, as we are really only becoming adults at 16 and can make easy mistakes. In Belgium there are cars that don't go over 45 km/h (28 mph) which are accessible from 16 onwards.
     
  11. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Your system is very close to ours. Ours look something like this (or at least when I took my driverslicense 4 years ago)

    • the absolutely first thing you need to do is to apply for a drivers permit. which is valid for a limited time. You need it in order to sit behind the wheel and train.
    • You must check your eyesight, which costs.
    • You sign up for a "mentor class" if you want to drive with someone who's not a driversteacher. This costs. I believe the person needs to have had a driverslicense for 5 years in order to be a mentor.
    • You then apply for the actual mentor's permit.
    • You buy books, we have 2 books here. One that is only a textbook, and one that is filled with exercises you can go through in order to learn faster. Both the theory and actual driving stuff.
    • You drive X amount of lessons. And preferably with someone you know, that you signed up for the mentor class. Cause the paid lessons are expensive as heck, those usually lasts about 40 mins.
    • Then you must to take a class about driving safety, drunk driving, etc. which costs.
    • You must also take a class in driving on ice, which you usually do just a short while before taking the actual drivers test. This costs, but its fun as hell :D
    • Then you do the theory test, if you pass, this test is only valid for 2 months, and you must pass your drivers test within that time, or you have to do it all over again. Same the other way around, if you pass the drivers test you must pass the theory test within two months. this also costs. You need to have passed 80% in order to pass the test.

      And the actual driving test includes helluva lot of stuff they check up on. Driving in the city, on a country road, left turns, a control of the cars all lights, switches, seat, mirrors, motor etc,
      You need to do ecodriving, parking, backing up around corners, parallel parking, change of files etc etc.

    Geez, im so glad i passed and have all of that overwith :D I remember how shitty I thought it was! its really hard to get a license here..
     
  12. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    Wow, that is a lot! I had heard of driving on ice, but did you know that in Finland, as well as that, they learn Scandinavian Rally drifting on gravel?

    We have theory: 15€ per try (unlimited but not on the same day).
    Practical: between 3 months and 36 months after passing the theory (or 18 months if you're 18 and go to driving school).
    We don't have to go to driving school, don't have to buy books (I used a free website), don't have to follow any special courses.

    I do think that people should at least redo the theory every so often: so many people mess up with priority and stuff here (although we do have a massive priority problem).
     
  13. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    system here :
    go take out learning license
    get into driving school (~1-2 months long)
    take drivings school theoretical exam
    take driving school driving exam
    take real theoretical exam
    take real driving exam
    enjoy your drivers license, it all takes from 3-5 months.
     
  14. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    Wow.. the driving on ice course must be awesome. When I took driver education they didn't have anything like that so I had to learn it by trial and error. Best education for that was driving on icy backroads in a pickup truck. If you can survive that you can drive anything on ice.... :/
     
  15. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    Well, I just came in from a drive with my mum. I still haven't got the hang of using the clutch smoothly and I drive too close to things for her comfort, but I like it!
    Especially getting up to 50 km/h in 3rd (on a 50 street).