Dissapointed about the final fight in ROTK

Discussion in 'Movies' started by SEVENWOLVES, Apr 28, 2005.

  1. SEVENWOLVES

    SEVENWOLVES GET READY FOR PUNISHMENT

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    The orcs are not so clever if i was the general i would devide them in lines, when the troops of rohan arrived the whole tactic was wrong, i would brought large shields with many large points on them to cover the rear end. The spearmen must run towards them, they were scared the orcs, and where are there reinforcements, the big giants they could wipe out the riders of rohan!
    And the fighting spirits i thought it was a dissapointment, i wanted to see a true battle, the elephants had been used earlier when they galloped at the troops of the orcs, where were the URUK'HAI???
    I know its written in the novel but like braveheart the orcs had could defeated the riders of rohan!!!!
     
  2. Firiath

    Firiath Halfling barbarian

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    Yeah, and that's what orcs really are, isn't it?
    Were there any Uruk-Hai in the book? Sorry, it's long ago that I read RotK.
    But this was not Braveheart. It's The Lord of the Rings, remember? ;)
     
  3. Adina

    Adina <img src=http://www.thefantasyforum.com/images/nub

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    KOW, you could just complain to Tolkien if you're really that unhappy with the story.
     
  4. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    No Easterlings, Not a SINGLE Easterling, but i find nothing wrong with the Fight Scene.
     
  5. Elkean

    Elkean New Member

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    Mordor didn't have Uruk-hai (at least I don't think). That's what seperated Saruman from Sauron, they were using different kinds of orcs.

    And to Galadriel, if you want to see the Easterlings in the final battle just play the videogame. There's loads of Easterlings fighting in there.
     
  6. warrior_squirrel21

    warrior_squirrel21 blue is my favorite color

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    Dude, you got haridrim, mumakil,trolls,grog(the big battering ram,incase you didnt know),those rhino things,and like 100,000 orcs! Whats makin u so freakin angry?!
     
  7. Richard Rahl

    Richard Rahl New Member

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    One could ask you the same question ;)

    The battering ram was actually called Grond, named after the Hammer of the Underworld, and I'd say there were closer to 200,000 orcs at the siege of Minas Tirith, at least.
     
  8. Fox

    Fox New Member

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    I thought this thread was referring to the um. FINAL fight in ROTK. (at the Black Gate)

    in which case... that was a little dissapointing, but understandable due to pacing and having to show the more important things first.


    The fight at Minas Tirith kicked ass, shut yo mouth foo!
     
  9. Gildor Inglorion

    Gildor Inglorion Immortal and unforgiving

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    Inititally the battle went exquistitly well, the score from Howard combined with the swooping Nazgul, was an utterly glorious scene, the charge of the Rohan picture perfect as well.

    Bad aspects though, the trolls bursting through the gates, completely out of place, it should have been the witch king, it would have been a much better preceeding scene to the arrival of Rohan.

    Plus the Army of the Dead was completely misused, ach Peter Jackson, why ? why ?

    Though i sense the intial post quibbled more over tactical ineptidue of the Orcs. Two factors go against them, there not to bright, plus they had no inkling major cavalry forces would be brought against them.
     
  10. am.dk

    am.dk Member

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    no no were is this getting at,the exact numbers is 60 000 orcks.
     
  11. LEGGY72489

    LEGGY72489 Federal Agent

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    Are we talking about the pelennor fields or the Black Gate?

    If your wondering the Black Gate had about 10,000 orcs and the Pelennor Field's had about 300,000 orcs including the Easterlings and Trolls.
     
  12. Mika Schpiljack

    Mika Schpiljack Guest

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    And what about these?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. am.dk

    am.dk Member

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    hell i dont now eny more ,we need to see some more of thise battel fights.
     
  14. LEGGY72489

    LEGGY72489 Federal Agent

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    Good point Mika.

    Hey Am.dk just to let you know when you reach 25 post the newbie face's go away.
     
  15. Lews Therin Telamon

    Lews Therin Telamon The Kinslayer

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    Okay, problem with what you said a few posts back, Leggy. As far as I know, there were 6,000 riders of Rohan at the Pelennor, and something like 3,000 soldiers in Minas Tirith at the time of the battle. Them, along with the maybe few thousand men from the Ships of the Corsairs, are all the men available, numbering probably from 10,000 to 15,000 at most in total, to beat the armies of Mordor. If there were 300,000 enemy forces at the battle, that means there were 20 times more enemies troops in the battle than friendly ones. 20 to 1 odds are in this case, to say the least, insurmountable. Maybe if it were Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Gandalf, Glorfindel, Elrond, Boromir, and Faramir (or any combination thereof) against twenty times their number, they could have won out, but the average soldier is not comparable to them, and when you take the entire armies into acount, there is no way every soldier could have killed 20 enemies each. And that's assuming every soldier survived; when you take deaths into acount, it's more like 30 or more each, and that's just ridiculous.

    As for the battle at the Morannon, if there were only 10,000 orcs, Aragorn and them could have won the battle without destroying the Ring. Granted, Gandalf does say to Gimli (in the movie) that there are 10,000 orcs between Frodo and Mount Doom. That doesn't mean that's all the Orcs there; what about the Orcs elsewhere, and the Easterlings, and the Haradrim, and all them? Sauron was afraid of Aragorn, and his plan was to, in that battle, crush the forces of Light in one crushing grasp. Aragorn brought something like 5 or 6 thousand troops with him to the gate, so Sauron would have at least wanted 20 or 30 thousand orcs, just to make sure. Granted, none of that says you are incorrect about the numbers at the black gates, but I would think that, logically, it would be bigger. 300,000, though, is ridiculous, and if that were true, there's no way that good would have won out over evil in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. I honestly don't know how many troops were there, and I really wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong (as far as the movie is concerned; no way Tolkien would have been that stupid) and that Peter Jackson actually did put such a ridiculous number in the battle and all, but I have to say, it's way too much.

    Back onto the topic at hand, I agree that the cave trolls were overused, and that the Witchking should have come in (like he was supposed to), not trolls. In addition, the Witchking was severely exaggerated in the movie from what he was supposed to be. The simple fact is that, in a one-on-one fight, Gandalf would kick the Witchking's ass in a second. I mean, there's no competition; Gandalf the White was a full-fledged Maia and, now that he was no longer flesh, could have killed another Balrog without being killed himself with certainty. And the fact is, there is no way you can put a Nazgul on par with a Balrog. The very concept is ridiculous; they were Morgoth's chief servants under Sauron, and if servants could have been made more powerful than a Balrog, Morgoth would have made them, and he certainly did try (ever heard of dragons? One of them would own a Nazgul in a second, but would never stand up to a Balrog). Anyway, the whole point is that, in the movie, not only is Gandalf afraid of the Witchking, but (in the extended edition) the Witchking breaks his staff and probably would have killed Gandalf if the Rohirrim hadn't come. It's unbelievably untrue to the book. Anyway, I'll stop with that, or else I'll keep ranting for hours about every little way in which Peter Jackson screwed up the movies. (Why with the Dead Army? It would have been better left the way it was meant to be! AHHH!!!) :rolleyes:
     
  16. LEGGY72489

    LEGGY72489 Federal Agent

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    Well, don't forget the army of the dead they toke out way more than any soldier in a matter of seconds.
     
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  17. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    i don't like the way they put the army of the dead. I think that they should have made them so they were a little bit weaker, in the movie they were a bit to powerful, but everything else was absoulely amazing.
     
  18. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Im pretty sure Lews was referring to the books, where the Army of the Dead didn't infact fight in the Battle of the Pelennor, they only scared the Corsairs of Umbar, allowing Aragorn and the Grey Company to take their ships to Gondor and join the battle.

    I don't agree with much of this....It was never stated in the books that Gandalf would "kick the Witch-King's ass," the fact is, we never do find out who would win, as the Witch-King has to flee before any fight takes place. Even Gandalf himself states that he has not yet faced his greatest challenge, and that he doesn't know how he would fair. Ofcourse, the knocking Gandalf on his ass was stupid, and it was downright offensive to break Gandalf's staff, as this is akin to removing him for the Order of the Istari (as we see when Gandalf breaks Sarumans), and I don't believe the Witch-King has that power.

    As for putting Nazgul on par with a Balrog, who can say? Certainly a Balrog is a Maia, though we know their powers in a pyshical form are severly limited. A Nazgul however, especially the Witch-King, are directed 100% by Sauron's will, and said to be an extension of his will, so if you are the extension of a Maia's will, who knows how much power he could have,and who knows how much power Sauron imbued them with. We know that Gandalf is not as strong as Sauron, he says so in TT, something about White being powerful, but Black (meaning Sauron) being "more powerful still." Surely the Witch-King was chosen as Sauron's supreme commander for a reason, but as for saying its totally ridiculous, where is your proof? We never see Gandalf fight the Witch-King, we never see a Balrog take on a Nazgul. Alot of your points are based on assumptions, but all we really have to go on is Tolkien's descrpitions, and when it came to the power of certain beings/characters, we never really got much, which was intentional I believe, it keeps an air of mystery about the beings, and makes it much more interesting.
     
  19. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    i always thought of the witchking as being one of the most powerful beings and i didn't find that odd, but hey. thats only my opinion
     
  20. Fox

    Fox New Member

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    I admit it was a bit on the cheesy side, but I think the Army of the Dead worked well the way it is. Hate to bring the pacing argument up, but it made for a really good end to the whole battle. Hope has come, and there is no escape for the enemy. The tide has turned for the last time. I think if they showed the Dead Army struggling through a horde of orcs, it would take away from the impact they had when they showed up.

    It's like: "Ohhh the army of the dead is here!!!!! We're saved!" ...then 15 hours later they finally defeat the orcs. The way it was done shows just how important Aragorn's mission was.