Denethor getting beat up

Discussion in 'Movies' started by byzantine warrior, Dec 17, 2003.

  1. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    i thought he was fuuny, "flee, flee for your lives!!"
     
  2. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

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    some leader he is :rolleyes:
     
  3. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    I think it will be better in the EE if we get to see why denethor is crazy (palantir nd such). because then we can sympathise and the whole thing is nicely wrapped up.
     
  4. Shinagani

    Shinagani New Member

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    Kinda like what happened with Faramir in TTT EE...

    Really the beating of Denethor wasn't that extreme, Gandalf only did it once(other than the time he knocked him off the pyre, but that's a different story) and he had to. Denethor was basically telling everyone to hide and let the Orcs walk right into Minas Tirith. So Gandalf had to indispose him so he could take charge of the city, and hold the walls for as long as possible.
     
  5. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    I felt sorry for the soldiers first they are told to guard the city then told to run away then told to return to their posts, they just kept going backwards and forwards.
     
  6. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    I felt bad for them too, especially when Gandalf said to stay no matter what and then those huge trolls came


    Legolas, the run away thing reminded me of the Monty Python movie too hehe :p
     
  7. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    Poor gondorians , kept being shouted at, running all over place, one minute told to run the nxt to fight, just as they thought they'd won they'd go and fight somwhere else......
     
  8. Shinagani

    Shinagani New Member

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    I found the gate scene kind of funny.... Gandalf does his "No matter what comes through that door stand firm" thing than when the gate opens do you see hundreds of Orcs like you expect to? No even worse, lots of BIG armored trolls. Then I think Gandalf's just like...."Ooooooo crap...."
     
  9. Mac

    Mac New Member

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    Well, I'll be the lone voice (except for Will). I DIDN'T like it. It didn't fit with Gandalf's character. I much prefer the death of Denethor, and I mean the thing as a whole, as Tolkien wrote it. In the film, you don't get the fullness of his madness.

    *************************
    Mac
     
  10. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    I don't like Denethor getting beat up by Gandalf either. I don't think it does justice to Denethors character. he might be insane now but in the books it was made very clear that this was a noble man, driven insane by the loss of his wife, his son but also by looking into the palantir in which he heard and saw more than any mortal man could endure. Denethor's story was a very sad one, a story of a great and noble man that's gradually driven mad by horrendous things he encountered through his later life.
    I don't think PJ considered that when he decided to portray Denethor's character as he did, and he should have. Letting Gandalf beat him does no justice to Denethor's character at all. (but I already mentioned that)
     
  11. Mac

    Mac New Member

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    I agree. A 60-second addition showing that Denethor has spent much time looking in the palantir to his detriment would have improved that part of the film.

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  12. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

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    ah good answer i also thought denethor acted too wimpy he didint look like a noble lord he looked like a jester
     
  13. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    Yes, they portrayed him purely as an obstacle, and that's just not fair.
     
  14. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

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    Hmmm first gilgalad and now denethor i think i know whos next cirdan....
     
  15. Sabishii

    Sabishii Sindarin

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    IMO, the movie-version Denethor deserved to get beaten up... Several times.
     
  16. Shinagani

    Shinagani New Member

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    I think the question isn't did you like Gandalf beating Denethor, but did you like how the movie portrayed Denethor. Now from the stand point of just the movie it was nessecary for Denethor to be beaten as I have stated before(I don't know if beating is the right term, I mean Gandalf only gave him a light knock to the head and a whack in the gut) but is also true that they didn't do Denethor justice either. When I read the book I didn't see any signs of Denethor going crazy untill after Faramir returned wounded, but in the movie they made him seem nuts from the moment you meet him...
     
  17. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    The beatings werent a negative portrayal of denethors character. In the theatrical version of the film we have no palantir info and not enough faramir-denethor sympathy to develop the sympathy we had in the book, so in the film version, denethor got what he needed and hopefully in the EE it will be better. I think PJ was using the beatings to show gandalfs strength and it was what he had to do to help the gondorians, if he didnt silence him then, the whole city would be sh*tting bricks if the steward in his high safe tower was whining like a baby. I think the beating resembled the change in fortune for the hope of gondor, not just denethor getting whooped like a baby.
     
  18. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

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    but ya have to admit it was funny i really wished they showed the palantir though btw did any of you see how he ate? I mean pippin was staring at the guy and hes a hobbit!
     
  19. Nienor

    Nienor Administrator Staff Member

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    It was interesting the way Denethor gets to eat like that when everyone else is getting food rationed. I don't think any hobbit would eat with that much greed while someone else was standing and entertaining them.

    The whole thing with Denethor would make more sense if they showed the Palantir. It would explain why he was going crazy. He seems like a random lunatic, not someone driven insane by Sauron.
     
  20. Sabishii

    Sabishii Sindarin

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    Meh... I saw him less a lunatic than just an evil, misguided man... That's the #1 thing I have against the movies, in that there is almost nobody "noble" enough to withstand the lure of evil, while in the book there's Faramir, Aragorn, Bombadil, Frodo, etc.