Crazy Christian Article

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Crouton, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to reply to you Yuan, though we're getting off the subject.
    God is omnipresent, equally in you as in a murderer or a flower. You got the gift of life, and the freedom to take it away should you not like it. I cannot speak for what God "wants" as I've no idea. I do know there are many levels of being beyond our comprehension, and that God is, in essence, infinity and nothingness bound in one. There is no need to worship it. But as you come to know yourself, you'll come to know God. The spark that gives you consciousness and will, that is the spark of God. And this spark is no less part of God than anything else in Creation.
    The veil is there for human beings to learn. If there were no veil, humanity would not be able to create of itself something original and unique. It would not be able to know itself if it didn't make countless mistakes and countless improvements of its own understanding. This process is not eternal, it will end once humanity as a whole evolves. But there is an infinity of processes, and as one ends another begins. Much like life itself.
    All you need to do is keep your mind open and attempt to understand without reason or logic interfering. Reason and logic are very useful, but with them alone, one will never be able to comprehend the entirety of existence. Because existence is not rational. The universe being created from nothingness? That is not rational. And that's science.
    God isn't there to tell you what to do. You're here to tell yourself what to do. Life would be pretty boring if you lived by the rules completely, of law or religion.
    It's simply, that being aware of God inside you (not saying you are God), is immensely helpful, and gives one strength to cope with life, that wasn't there before. Belief in God is not necessary for human existence. It is not necessary for an intellectual or moral or technological improvement, but it is if we want to comprehend the essence of both who we and the Cosmos are.
    That's just my opinion though.
     
  2. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    All I am saying is that man needs God because God is life.Take the Soviet Union for example.A godless regime for about 70 years.They managed to do some things,but most of the things they achieved and most of the things they WANTED to achieve were materialistic.Communism forbids religion and thus forbids people to progress spiritually.It makes them seek material goods and live a life under heavy materialistic targets to achieve.Of course communism has a gazillion faults,I just used it as an example of a country that forced people not to believe in any religion.But so many during that godless regime that ruled Russia and so many other countries,found God,former atheists who found the Lord and changed their lives.
     
  3. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I wouldn't describe communism as materialistic in the least. Indeed the basic principle that everyone is equal and gets paid the same etc... would strongly suggest that materialistic and monetary wealth were not fundamental parts of a communist system (at least based upon the theory - and upon the concept of everyone being equal as opposed to the practical reality where its more everyone is dirt poor and kept dirt poor and a handful on the top cream off the riches).

    Indeed the countries which have continued to follow a religious element have become, if anything, more materialistic as time has gone on. Heck most modern western society values and concepts are based upon materialistic wealth and monetary wealth. Even in Greece you are still under the same influences (heck yourself Foin you've stacks of games and swords ;)).
     
  4. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Yes but does that mean I don't support or don't believe in God?Or that one shouldn't try to become a better person to be loved by God even more?You can't just tell me that communist countries were less materialistic than modern countries right now.Plus you shouldn't point Greece and laugh about it because it's Western countries that bring a materialistic kind of culture in the rest of the world.
     
  5. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    This seems more like an interpretation of the divine I'd be agnostic about. Dead set in print things seem often too rigid for me though.
     
  6. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    But you can't deny that the church as an entity has always been near the top end of the scale with regard to finances. Heck during the times of monasteries in the UK they became almost the most powerful entities in the country; and whilst some did turn away from money and attempt to return to a more spiritual beginning it wasn't until they were basically torn apart by Henry VIII that they lost their powerbase.

    Even today the Vatican remains one of the most rich entities in terms of materials and money. You can't say its a western influence when this tie with religion and wealth is seen almost all over the world.
     
  7. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    There are scandals of course,because there are always black sheep everywhere.If you allow me this nice text,it might give you a smile and warm your heart,it's from father Paisios :)

    Why a Christian shouldn't be fanatical

    By Elder Paisios the Athonite




    A Christian must not be fanatical; he must have love for and be sensitive towards all people. Those who inconsiderately toss out comments, even if they are true, can cause harm.




    I once met a theologian who was extremely pious, but who had the habit of speaking to the secular people around him in a very blunt manner; his method penetrated so deeply that it shook them very severely. He told me once: “During a gathering, I said such and such a thing to a lady.” But the way that he said it, crushed her. “Look”, I said to him, “you may be tossing golden crowns studded with diamonds to other people, but the way that you throw them can smash heads, not only the sensitive ones, but the sound ones also.”




    Let’s not stone our fellow-man in a so-called “Christian manner.” The person who – in the presence of others – checks someone for having sinned (or speaks in an impassioned manner about a certain person), is not moved by the Spirit of God; he is moved by another spirit.




    The way of the Church is love; it differs from the way of the legalists. The Church sees everything with tolerance and seeks to help each person, whatever he may have done, however sinful he may be.




    I have observed a peculiar kind of logic in certain pious people. Their piety is a good thing, and their predisposition for good is also a good thing; however, a certain spiritual discernment and amplitude is required so that their piety is not accompanied by narrow-mindedness or strong-headedness. Someone who is truly in a spiritual state must possess and exemplify spiritual discernment; otherwise he will forever remain attached to the “letter of the Law”, and the letter of the Law can be quite deadly.




    A truly humble person never behaves like a teacher; he will listen, and, whenever his opinion is requested, he responds humbly. In other words, he replies like a student. He who believes that he is capable of correcting others is filled with egotism.




    A person that begins to do something with a good intention and eventually reaches an extreme point, lacks true discernment. His actions exemplify a latent type of egotism that is hidden beneath this behavior; he is unaware of it, because he does not know himself that well, which is why he goes to extremes.




    This is like the Icon-worshippers and the Icon-fighters. Extreme was the one, and extreme was the other!




    The former reached the point of scraping the icon of Christ to throw the dust into the Holy Chalice, so that Holy Communion could become better; the others again burned the icons and threw them away.




    This is why the Church was forced to put the icons high and, when the persecution passed, they brought them low, so that we could venerate them and honor the person depicted.
     
  8. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    Religion is based on things that dosent Exists - God, and it is falling apart, as the house which would be built on the rudiments which would not exist.
     
  9. Taliesyn

    Taliesyn It's a feral reality out there, kids.

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    With all due respect, Foin, I have to wonder what your problem with "foreigners" is. You are coming across as disturbingly nationalistic, but I don't know you so I could be way off base here.

    Also, just because someone can't see God the way you do (or at all) does not make them a whiny emo kid who complains about religion not being tailored to their personal tastes. Some folks arrive at faith through a sincere questioning and evaluation of everything they think they know. Some arrive at no faith the same way. You have no idea what lies in the heart of a person that makes them come to the conclusions that they do. No one does. So dismissing them as being nothing more than this or that kind of person is hardly helpful, don't you think? ;)
     
  10. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    No no,it's not a racist or nationalist problem,many years ago,before you and many people here joined we had various heated debates and stuff and like I told the guys back then we have a difference in culture,a cultural gap.Especially on religion matters and some parts of the way of life Greeks and Eastern people(like muslims and others in the middle-east)have a different mindset,we have differences in culture.The West thinks that some certain things are progressive,we think that such things are just weird or not normal.You know what I mean?It's not a racist thing or something.

    But you have to agree that a lot of people blame God just because some things in their life don't work and when things do work out they don't say a "Thank God".
     
  11. Taliesyn

    Taliesyn It's a feral reality out there, kids.

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    Then I clearly misread you. You have my apologies, Foin.

    Well, I don't know if it's a lot of people or just a few, but I guess there would have to be at least one person in the world who is like that. I wouldn't necessarily say Yuan's like that though. He seemed to be quite genuine in the questions he was asking you earlier. :)
     
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  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Yuan's a nice person he doesn't mean bad and he can find his way to God all he needs is some research,some patience and some prayers ;)

    If you check some statistics Cyprus(Greek part)and Greece are among the highest ranking countries in Europe when it comes to believing in God.I think we have the fewer "atheist" or "agnostic" claims in Greece and Cyprus as well as in Malta if I remember correctly.
     
  13. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    If you're going to blame god for good things, why can you not blame him for the bad things as well?
     
  14. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I've never blamed God for just any old bad thing, or any good thing. I only think negatively of religion when there is cause to, like this ridiculous article which I started the thread about, or wars started over religion, or bullying/ murder in the name of Gods. Unfortunately we see way too much of that in this world.
     
  15. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Choo-choo, chugga chugga! All aboard the crazy train!!!
     
  16. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    It was a question in response to what Foin said. When I was a Christian I used to get agitated with people who blamed god for not helping them. Now I wonder, why is it not okay to blame god for bad things when we blame him for the good in our life? I like my religion. The bad and the good can both be "blamed" on gods without it being unjust or unfair to the gods, really, though I tend to just take the blame myself and hope the gods forgive me for whatever insolence I exerted to cause the flow of negativity in my life. I don't like to blame anyone for the good or bad because it tends to piss them off. I just say like "Thanks, if you helped me X" or "Sorry if I pissed you off, Y or Z". Then again, I'm a nut -.-

    This made this thread worth revisiting tonight.
     
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