Crazy Christian Article

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Crouton, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/spiritual-warfare/15889-can-you-be-raped-by-the-devil

    When I first read this I honestly thought it was a joke. I thought it may have been a joke website or something. But it turns out it's a real article on an actual Christian magazine website.

    So according to this, people who are homosexual could be that way because they had sex with the devil.... sometimes in their dreams. Christian logic wins again I think.
     
  2. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    How can anybody be raped by Satan, he is so charming.

    But yeah, I also find this part of the article dripping in double standards: "Adams also notes that disobedience also produces fear, which is another tool Satan uses.

    Adams says: "Fear is their forerunner. If you get paralyzed by fear, they actually will come and rape you. But if you draw near to God, Satan has to flee. Satan's job is to suggest that you not draw near to God, so that he does not have to flee."

    When people promote being God-fearing like it isn't that bad. I get the lesson, hubris is bad, but to the point where it demeans the human potential and all of our technology and science it seems insulting.
     
  3. LadyoftheGoldenWood

    LadyoftheGoldenWood Well-Known Member

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    A statement such as that is just as ignorant as the article and personally I find very offensive.

    People always talk about 'christian logic' and how 'stupid' christians are making a blanket statement for the whole of every denomination and group.

    Yet anytime a christian does that its how horrible they are and how stupid and ignorant they are.

    Well; that is a door that goes both ways. So in that very statement you are just as ignorant as the so called 'Christians' who wrote it in the first place.
     
  4. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Eh it doesn't surprise me in the least - in fact is says pretty much what I expected it to say.

    Humans have complicated minds and we don't always help matters with the social and habitual constructs that modern life build around us. As such its not surprising to read of people who have, for want of a better word "inner demons." Those elements of their mind set which don't quite fit into what is proper and right in modern advertised society and also those elements which might develop over time in their mind as opposed to led changes by direct outside and identifiable influences.


    Coming to terms with these inner "demons" can often be a challenge for many people (esp during such developing stages in life such as puberty), so its no surprise that some take the very literal interpretation of them and end up doing what many people do without thinking; and trying to shift blame and responsibility for their actions onto someone or something else.

    For the average person this mental construct is pretty common, we don't like being responsible for things we don't understand or like or nessessarily want to choose to want to have/be so trying to blame an outside party can help many just make it through their day.

    I would argue that the heavily religious is an extreme example of this mindset, where the mental tricks to cope have failed. That it comes coupled with, what I suspect, is life that ended up (Because of the social structure we have) being pushed into the "evils" of the world (sex, drugs, crime, prostitution, pimps etc...) then attributing it all to some demonic force isn't that outlandish.


    The problem is people get sucked into this mind set without an anchor and so they get very pulled in and then everyone else needs pulling in too in their view.
     
  5. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I don't think all Christian logic is flawed, in that case I am only talking about this particular article, and yes, there have been other incidents in the past. But right now I'm only speaking very specifically about how ridiculous this article is. At least you agree that the people who wrote this article are also ignorant.
     
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  6. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry but most of the time "christian logic" is ignorant. There is almost never any scientific evidence for anything that is claimed by Christians. Now, I know the whole argument on faith and whatever, but the logic needs to be based of fact, and typically with Christians. it is not. I stopped being a Christian for that very reason.

    Being raped by demons.. or Lucifer, now that's interesting. The whole basis as the whether or not you think it's silly would have to go along with whether or not you believe in that stuff. I do believe in the spiritual realm. And hey, sure, maybe Lucifer is real. But why would he rape anyone if he could talk them into it? I doubt he'd waste time doing that. Demons on the other hand, I guess... but I don't understand how you can get raped by something you can't see, feel, or touch. And getting raped by demons in your dreams... well.. okay. Sure, but is that real? Does that count as spiritual warfare? I can see how it would. I've never been raped by demons, but I've had some creepy ass dreams in the past that had demons in them... They may not have been real, but my psyche sure as hell felt violated enough for them to be real.

    I think these people just need some therapy, and I don't think it has anything to do with being bros with Jesus. The farther away I've isolated myself from Christianity, the farther away I've been from that stuff. I've even had significantly less amounts of nightmares.

    Homosexuality being caused by dream-raping demons is just absolutely ridiculous. I don't think I even need to expand on that.
     
  7. LadyoftheGoldenWood

    LadyoftheGoldenWood Well-Known Member

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    Then do not make blanket statements such as 'christian logic' I am a christian, that is not my logic. I have known many christians, that was not their logic; I have known crazy christians with some crazy logic behind it and that was no were near their verity of crazy. But a blanket statement such as just 'Christian logic' lumps all verities of chriastans together.

    That is just as ignorant and wrong as how christians tend to lump all Muslims into the same category of extremest when they are not. It is not far, it is not right and if you want to be viewed separate from the level of ignorance of the others you speak of; do not make the same blanket statement mistakes that they do. From growing up on a forum and in forum debates; that is the fastest way to get other people who would in general agree with you to not like you.

    I could not even stomach more then a light skimming of the article it is so ludicrous; but that article is not christian logic at all. It is the logic of some christians with in my personal, christian opinion; out there and deluded beliefs.
     
  8. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I've heard somewhere that someone can perform a ritual or I don't know,call somehow for a demon prostitute to come to his dream.But seriously,people shouldn't get involved with black magic and things like that.The Lord is the Truth and the Life.
     
  9. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    Do you really believe in black magic, you make it sound like that scenario is based on hearsay. And what does something in a dream have to do with reality?
     
  10. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    You are exactly the type of Christian that I like, also the ones I feel sorry for. I know many level-headed intelligent Christian people. You seem to be one of them. I always feel sorry for people like you when articles like this are posted (and unfortunately, there are so many of them) because it gives a bad image to the rest of you. These freaks out there are making your religion look like a joke. It's such a shame that there are so many crazy religious nutjobs ruining it for the sensible ones like yourself.
     
  11. LadyoftheGoldenWood

    LadyoftheGoldenWood Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, there are more sensible one then insane ones. The insane ones just get the most attention. Look at the west bro baptist church; there are like less then fifty members, clearly a complete minority. Yet they are more known then anything else.

    People just chose to exploit the crazy for the entertainment of it.
     
  12. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Sadly a lot of these rituals basically involve getting high on some form of drug. At that point their subconscious takes over and when they have dizzying memories after the event their beliefs often rebuild the missing bits and explain the few scraps that they recall. Selection of specific drugs does most likely, affect the visions since some drugs will have different effects and influences.

    But in today's world most of it is just regular drug use.
     
  13. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    This is true, the media often jump onto the negative imagery of things, so you hear more about... for example, pedophile priests than any other aspect of the Catholic Church. I'm sure there are nice Catholic people out there, but from the news whenever I think of that church I just think of old men sexually abusing children which is a shame. The crazy ones do get a lot more attention than the sane ones.
     
  14. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    I have a friend who is into drugs and he is always saying nuts stuff about magic, and seeing things move, and like ghosts and such. To him I'm sure it is real, but much like if he had dementia then everything he would feel then would seem just as real also.

    Demonic possession is old hat, I think that was just what people brushed off debilitating mental disorders as.

    Yeah I was a Catholic in my younger years, my family still is especially my mother and her side of the family. Those pedophile quips get old, but obnoxiously enough the pedophile stories won't stop popping up so it is hard to say they aren't wrong all the time even though I'm sure most priests have good intention. Hell, there was a time that I even wanted to be a priest.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  15. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I think the closest you could get to "demonic possession" would be a case of duel personalities. Then again that area needs a lot more study from what I recall and is a very difficult area to deal with in general with regard to mental health.


    Also I'm reminded that ventriloquists used be considered possessed people able to speak with the voice of angels or devils (depending mostly it seems on if they spoke the right things to the right person - an angle fast becoming a devil if you said the wrong ones).
     
  16. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    http://www.sfaturiortodoxe.ro/orthodox/orthodox_advices_magic.htm On magic and occultism

    Sorry I couldn't find any other link about the Orthodox Church's opinion about magic or these dreams in english so...anyway here's something else that the Orthodox Church says about homosexuality though:





    The Orthodox Church has been consistent in condemning acts of homosexuality (but not homosexual persons), despite variations in the conditions for homosexual activity and responses from various Church leaders and the State. Continuing a worldview evident from the Old and New Testaments, the Church Fathers consistently condemned homosexual activity, as did the Byzantine state.[5][6]

    Official statements by the Orthodox hierarchy continue to be consistent in terms of the traditional position that homosexual behaviour is sinful and thus damaging to the human person, and that homosexual temptation is a subject for ascetic struggle. While some Orthodox theologians and jurisdictions have championed the traditional view, they have also engaged in scientific conversation and in dialogue with the increasing number of societies that view homosexuality far differently than at the time of the Byzantine Empire.[7][8] After affirming the import and meaning of the Scriptures that address homosexual activity, calling it sin, the Orthodox Church in America offered the following advice at its 10th All-American Council in 1992:

    Men and women with homosexual feelings and emotions are to be treated with the understanding, acceptance, love, justice and mercy due to all human beings...Persons struggling with homosexuality who accept the Orthodox faith and strive to fulfill the Orthodox way of life may be communicants of the Church with everyone else who believes and struggles. Those instructed and counselled in Orthodox Christian doctrine and ascetical life who still want to justify their behavior may not participate in the Church’s sacramental mysteries, since to do so would not help, but harm them.
    Assistance is to be given to those who deal with persons of homosexual orientation in order to help them with their thoughts, feelings and actions in regard to homosexuality. Such assistance is especially necessary for parents, relatives and friends of persons with homosexual tendencies and feelings. It is certainly necessary for pastors and church workers.[
     
  17. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    What exactly do they count as "helping those suffering from homosexuality?"
     
  18. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    You don't look for scientific evidence for historic events. Scientifically one cannot prove that the Revolutionary War happened, but rather use historic evidence, of which there is plenty of evidence from both religious and secular sources.
     
  19. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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  20. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    In places like Tibet,magicians/wizards of some high levels can summon demons.Yes it is possible to do it,but it is evil,it's black magic.
     
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