Christianity

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Eàmanë, Aug 9, 2003.

  1. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    Well, I fully agree. I had that feeling of "governments are not bad!" when I read Croutons post, and you made an excellent post about why it isn't.

    That means that there was very little for me to do. You beat me to it. So, yes. My place has been taken ;)
     
  2. Beldaran

    Beldaran Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    perhaps it has something to do with the fact that we're dutch ;). thanks for the compliment :)!
     
  3. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    I gather you're not a PVV member ;)

    Back to Christianity, peeps. I dunno. Something with Jesus. And a cross?
     
  4. Hater`

    Hater` headless hater

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0
    Imagine
    Jesus vs Chuck Noriss...now that would be a great plot for expendables 3.
     
  5. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    Government and God are very similar to me. He is held as a king yet he works like a conspiracy theory. Also the question of morality and people running government, by the chain of things God is responsible for all the varying possible chemical processes in his nature, including how we make decisions and if we are naturally good or evil, but people are neither good or evil as Christianity dictates. People will just survive, and depending on where you stand it could be purple and red instead of black and white.
     
  6. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    have you ever heard that thing about Clark's three laws?
     
  7. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    here and there
    Ratings:
    +251 / 3 / -1

    If you're talking about Clarke's Three Laws I think they are an overly romantic way of dealing with science and technology and what is 'possible', and 'impossible'... in short, the laws are garbage and should have no bearing whatsoever on how an individual thinks about the future of humankind.

    And I'm a huge fan of Arthur C. Clarke.
     
  8. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    What relevance do they have? Do you mean to say that a "God" as we can fathom could just be a being with more advanced technology? I'm not big on the aliens planting life here theory myself but that is the closest thing I can relate to that.

    I'm just saying that polytheism would justify nature as is conflicting with itself. Still I'd like to think that a God as an engineer of their world, would have respect for their creation and not allow mass suffering or at least adjust the creation because it has already been made. I don't know if I said before I don't hold people responsible for their moral actions, branding people good and bad is an easy way to dehumanize and categorize people without needing to know their story and along with the fact that our brain's chemical reactions and form are beyond our control the way we are wired.

    Simply put, how can gluttony be a sin when our brains reward us for eating because our society is so advanced food is easier to come by? If anything I say it is a made fault with our brains. I can give examples for other sins, but just one proof of nature conflicting with the will of God who created nature should raise an eyebrow.
     
  9. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    well, some might say that just because someone can't control themselves doesn't excuse their actions. hmm... i wonder if most of the arguments against a supernatural world are Monist arguments or something else...

    bleh, i should've taken another philosophy class first before inserting myself too deeply into debates like these.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
  10. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    That would seem mildly heartless considering that it could arise from mental disability, or something they could never fix, or can't be fixed yet. People need to get pass the idea of revenge and victimization and realize that even the perpetrator has problems that probably caused them to commit crimes or do "bad" things. Then they are recognized as monsters and kind of self-fulfill that vision of themselves.

    Consider that while a bullied child suffers, something far worse has to drive a child to harass and break down another child just so they can get by. I'd take the blame up the line of command rather than down to it's latest medium.

    I think that polytheism would at least explain conflicting nature, but still depend on faith to be believed in, but I like to give Christianity a hard time because it is so rigid about how the single God operates and not considering our modern knowledge of psychology and science.
     
  11. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    how does one define morality, by the way?
     
  12. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    here and there
    Ratings:
    +251 / 3 / -1
    Morality is simply the differentiation between what we deem good and right, and what we condemn as bad and wrong. Every culture constructs its own moral code and creates a justice system to encompass and enforce it. Every culture has its own mythology and history tailored for this moral code, to teach lessons, to inspire, to control. You can really only view morals through your own cultural lens; for instance, a citizen of Saudi Arabia will have a very different moral code than say, me. They look upon women as a different class of human being and I see women as equals... but I will still buy petroleum from them because my morals are quite flexible.
     
  13. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    so if morals are relative... how should one act? if the standards keep changing o_O
     
  14. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    Foremost for their own sake and survival, then probably within the societal limits so a person can interact with others and live in a developed technological society, anything else is their own personal decision.

    Still nothing is free, and the success of somebody will often mean somebody else gets the short end. It is important to realize that other people are having just as hard of a time as you, at least if you want to be humanistic about the way you live. Really there wouldn't be a need for laws or codes if we could fully understand the complex situations of every other person because we would probably prevent their harm for the sake of understanding, but the level of depth it can get too and the vast size and detachment even within communities requires some form of governing.
     
  15. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    then is there no hope for a completely harmonious society without vice or malice?
     
  16. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Actually sorry to say but everything seems to offend Jews and Muslims these days.Jews will make a fuss through the media and the Muslims will smash everything and go on hate rallies.
     
  17. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    The idea of a utopia is kind of manic. You'd have to control the people in a society to the point where they lose all their culture and right to believe what they want. I'd rather have a free mess, than a one way road where big brother has a probe up you to ensure total peace. I mean we have built in flaws as long as we are people, and we can't help what we do because our biological nature pushes us to do things, so maybe not as much malice based.

    Judaism comes with a semi-justified victimization complex. Islam hasn't seen a revamp to modern times quite yet, at least where all the hamfisted judgement is being passed on "heretics" and the like of people who dare to have their own thoughts. Two very different types/reasons for being offended.
     
  18. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    when you've been nearly genocided, you might have a point in being a bit jittery about every criticism.
     
  19. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Greeks and Armenians have been genocided as well.Does anybody even bother to read about that?To know that?No.But again you can't say something freely in the modern world without easily been called an "anti-semet".That term is very easily used."Anti-semet".You said Israel is butchering the Palestinians?You're an anti-semet.You said Jews are controllin the economic and politican centres of Europe and USA?You're a racist.

    Just like that.Easily.And Islam is like....they easily call their own people to fight the "infidels" finding whatevet excuse they want,from colonialism to a western government saying to to Sharia law in their country or no to the veil for the muslim immigrants in their country.
     
  20. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"