Character Discussion : Jon Snow

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Elan Morin Tedronai, May 18, 2005.

  1. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Lets get some character discussions going. Perhaps we can focus on a new character every month or so. We'll start with Jon Snow. Alot of people have conflicting views about this character. Some say he is the "classic/cliched" fantasy hero; underprivaliged boy rises to greatness, etc, etc.

    But I think Jon Snow represents the reader/comman man in many ways. As most of us aren't noble lords and brave knights, Jon's underprivaliged beginnings help us identify with him more. Like all Martin's characters, he is not just a plain "good" guy, and has plenty of shades of grey. He is one of my favourite characters, and I hope he stays around for awhile.

    Discussions on Jon's parentage are also welcome here. It was Lyanna and Rhaegar :D It has too be. Rhaegar is one of my favourite characters so it would make sense that his son is also one of my favourites ;)
     
  2. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    I agree with what you said... especially the last part. ;)

    I don't really know if he's underpriveleged, though... Eddard Stark acknowledged him as his supposed son and took care of him. How many lords would bother to do that with their bastards? He had a roof over his head, and plenty to eat and drink. Ned trained him and made sure that he would at least have some way of supporting himself.

    And yeah, I do agree with your theory in some other thread about "A Song of Ice and Fire," Jon Snow being the character of "Ice" and Dany for "fire".
     
  3. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Not underprivaliged in a monetary way, but in another way. Like, when hes outside playing he can be with Robb and Bran and everyone, but then when an important event happens (like when Robert comes to visit), he can't sit with his family and has to sit away with all the other baseborn children. And the way Catelyn treats him, that coldness towards him, would be horrible. And he is always looked down upon as a "bastard," which is something that haunts his entire life, he is always being mocked by it, as if its his fault.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2005
  4. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Well, it DOES suck, but bastards were considered an embarassment back then. And although it's weird, people seem to treat bastards as if their illegitimacy was THEIR fault instead of their parents'...
     
  5. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    The "Bastard" term was continually thrown in his face, but as 'Lord Snow' was pointedly reminded, most people don't grow up in a castle, trained by weapon masters, and so forth. I think that his being underprivilaged is merely in the eye of the beholder.
     
  6. Patkun

    Patkun Patkun, lover of bread

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    I like this character discussion idea, Mr. Tedronai.

    What people forget about Jon is that he develops quite a lot during the story. He's 'coming of age' right before our eyes.
    For instance, at the start of AGoT, he was first seen childishly drinking more than was good for him, and joined the NW on a whim that very same night. He was more arrogant back then, but going to the wall changed him, and going into the wildlings changed him even more. He's a man now.
     
  7. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Thankies, Mr Patkun :D

    Where do people see Jon Snow going in the future ? Will he remain Lord Commander of the Watch. Will he take up Stannis' offer ?

    And who do people believe are his real parents ?
     
  8. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I think he'll remain in the Night's Watch, it seems that he'd made up his mind to refuse Stannis' offer at the end of aSoS. I think that his parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna (sp). I do see a twist to his future though. For some reason I see he and Dany together before the story wraps itself up.
     
  9. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    I personally think Jon and Danaerys are Ice and Fire, respecitvily. And together they will defeat the Others, and perhaps Jon will become King. I hope that, if that happens, Catelyns around to see it. I hate the way she treats Jon, and she'd be so cut if she found it he wasn't Eddard's all along. Then she'd have to bow to him. Take that, Catelyn. :devilbat:
     
  10. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Lol, I agree with both Turin and Elan, but not with the Catelyn bit. In the first two books, I didn't like her, but I grew to respect her more and more as I read through A Storm of Swords. Although she does treat Jon cruelly, and it wasn't even his fault, try to understand her PoV. She's newly wed, her husband leaves her pregnant, and when he returns, he has a bastard with him. To her, Jon isn't just an embarassment to Ned and the Starks--he embarasses her as well. Although I might not like it, I can't blame her.
     
  11. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    I guess your right, although I didn't mean to give the impression I hated Catelyn, I do like her, and Im glad shes still alive, even if she can't speak. But the coldness she shows towards Jon is disturbing to me.

    Whilst this is true, shouldnt she take her anger out on Ned, not Jon ? After all, if Eddard did have an affair (which he didn't, i don't believe its even possible) then its Ned's fault and not Jon's. It was especially bad when Jon just tried to say goodbye to his half-brother Bran, and Catelyn tells him "It should have been you."
     
  12. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Mmm-hmm. That "It should have been you" was something I disliked her for in the first few books. But people are irrational, and to her, Jon represented her embarassment, and so she took it out on the easiest target. To her, it wasn't just Ned's fault, but the woman's, and Jon also represented the woman. *shrug* Psychology is another reason why I love George R. R. Martin. He has real, believable characters who act realistically--it might not be nice, but it's understandable and believable.

    Of course, I don't believe that Jon is Ned's bastard either. He's Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. :)
     
  13. Patkun

    Patkun Patkun, lover of bread

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    It'd be funny if Jon's parents were two people we hadn't heard of yet, and they weren't important to the story at all.
    But yeah, it's probably Rhaegar and Lyanna.
     
  14. Numenor53

    Numenor53 Member

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    I wonder if Jon is goin to restore the Black Watch to what it used to be?? Like stated earlier i too think Lyanna and Rhaegar are his "Natural" parents. But concerning Catelyn, i think her distaste for Jon lies not in the fact that he was an embarrasment to the Starks and Her, but the Fact that Eddard, didnt think he was an embarrasment. Sure Jon didnt sit with the family when Robert came to Winterfell but that was more etiquette than embarrasment, bastards dont sit in the company of the king.
    Adding fuel to the fire was the fact Ned would never talk to Cat about what happened, and in turn took his secrets to the grave.

    Thats my take anyway...

    P.S
    I would like to see her reaction when she finds out that Jon is not Neds bastard but Lyanna's son... if in fact thats the truth.
     
  15. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Lol, same here...

    ... maybe Mr. Tedronai could start up a chara discussion on Eddard and Catelyn Stark? :)
     
  16. Akkarin

    Akkarin Black High Lord

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    I thought Jon Snow was one of the easiest characters to relate to, well for me anyway. As commander of the Nights Watch, he's surely going to do a great deal of good and be sure to replenish the Wall's defences etc.
    Hopefully, his name will be spread right across the seven Kingdoms. I'd really like to see that.
    I also read above that Elan Morin Tedronai thinks it's possible he may become King. While that's definately a great notion, it's also fanciful.
    One thing I've learnt from GRRM is that he never turns the story in a way that a) you anticipate it to go because that's what you want B) it's just what you expect.
    I think we're definately in store for some major surprises. Well at least I hope so because that's what I loved so much about it!
    Back onto the subject of Jon, well I just can't wait to see how he goes. I'm also really curious about Arya but since this is Jon's thread, I'll leave it at that.
     
  17. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Mostly posted here to 1) Revive the R + L theory, and second, to say that Jon Snow (from what I saw of him in the Sam chapter from AFFC) isn't counted among my favorite characters anymore.

    SPOILERS from AFFC! Highlight to read!










    That whole baby-switching thing with Gilly's and Dalla's kids was rather cruel. Of course, we haven't seen the new Jon Snow chapters, so we can't really say much, but I don't like him quite as much as I used to. He's becoming too hard/cold for me to really like him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2005
  18. Mathias Tanavar

    Mathias Tanavar New Member

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  19. Mathias Tanavar

    Mathias Tanavar New Member

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    My Favorite, though has always been Jaime Lannister... through his highs (his excelent conversations with Brienne of Tarth) and his Lows (His attempted murder of Bran) he has always been the embodiment of the series idea that there are no good guys or bad guys... only guys.

    Jon Snow has always seemed too firmly in the good guy camp. although his actions in AFFC may show a change from this...
     
  20. Mathias Tanavar

    Mathias Tanavar New Member

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    goddam it that last one ended up on the wrong thread... guess i deserve the title newbie!!!
     
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