Changes in RotK

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Glorfy_of_Imladris, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. Mac

    Mac New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    If I have this right, the Haradrim (men of Harad) took over Umbar sometime prior to the War of the Ring, and their ships were the Corsairs of Umbar that the orcs saw coming. The orcs were pumped because thier allies, the Haradrim, had arrived. But instead of being loaded with Haradrim, the ships were filled with Aragorn and the dead guys.

    I think the guys riding the mumakil (eliphants) were supposed to be Haradrim, too.

    ************************
    Mac
     
  2. Urambo Tauro

    Urambo Tauro Art House Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Banks of the Gonduin
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Don't get about Ghan-Buri-Ghan...not that I really mind his absence.
     
  3. Scrinlord

    Scrinlord Dark Lord of Guppies

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Yeah, the Mumakil riders were Haradrim, as were the people who were supposed to be in the corsairs.

    And you are right, there is no Ghan-Buri dude, but that really doesnt matter all that much.
     
  4. will

    will New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Holland/England
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Yeah there was no druedain either lol
     
  5. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,121
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Constantinopoli
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    i heard that ghan might be in the EE BTW in umbar their are haradrim and black numenoreans. the black numenoreans probably piloted the corsairs in the book
     
  6. DohHunter

    DohHunter Community Defender

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I don't think they ever called the corsairs the Haradrium in the movie. I remember Elrond telling Aragorn about then, but calling them ships from the south.....and corsairs I believe. Then when the orcs meet the ships on the river, they say "Lousy Pirates"......so I think they intended the corsairs to be a separate subrace of men, hence keeping with the Corsairs of Umbar.
     
  7. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,121
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Constantinopoli
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    no they didint thats why they are i think black numenoreans numenoreans from the black years
     
  8. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I kinda agree with Byz. here: the Gondorians were descended from the Numenorians, but diminished because the Dunadain were few and their blood got mingled with lesser man (with some exceptions)
    I think it's the same case with the Black Numenoreans, only they got mingled with southrons.
     
  9. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,265
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Englands Green and Pleasant Lands
    Ratings:
    +91 / 0 / -0
    Corsairs is just another word for pirates, so they were just pirates and they usually come from all over the place, just coz theyre the corsairs of umbar doesnt mean theyre haradrim (who occupied umbar or whatever you said?)

    So the corsairs were a rag tag bunch of pirates who dock in umbar, mostly black numenorians etc. not haradrim.
     
  10. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    They were absolutely no rag tag bunch of pirates but a sound militairy organisation that, because of their business, were called corsairs of Umbar.
    And as a matter of fact, I do think it's highly likely that the Haradrim were partly populating Umbar as Umbar was a city that was located in Haradwaith (you know, were the haradrim came from)
     
  11. will

    will New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Holland/England
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I have to agree with Finrod because it's a fact that the Haradrim took over Umbar some time after 1856 in the Third age. Then in the encyclopedia it says:
    ' The date of the Gondor's loss of Umbar is not recorded. All we know for sure, from Appendix A to The Lord of the Rings, is that '...in the evils that soon befell Gondor Umbar was again lost, and fell into the hands of the Men of Harad'. The 'evils that soon befell' were the waves of assault on Gondor, especially by the Wainriders, that started in III 1856.'
    Pirates would have to refer to the Haradrim. The black Numenoreans did rule Umbar many years somewhere in the third age but I believe the pirates that were defeated at Pelargir were Haradrim.
     
  12. Mac

    Mac New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Well, I must apologize. I thought the word "corsair" meant a swift steed or vessel, but I see now it means "pirate." I guess I was thinking of "courser." :}
     
  13. Aemon Targaryen

    Aemon Targaryen New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Well the biggest change that will definetly NOT be in the extended edition is the Scouring of the Shire, just because Jackson "Didnt like it" I have to disagree, that chapter was the ture ending of the War of the Ring and the Thrid age and also it showed the whole of the Shire proving itself to the wolrd by rising up and doing away with their oppressors. I konw it would have lengthend the movie more but they could at least have had another monolouge montage thing with Galadriel or maybe, Sam, about it.

    Also I think they made Pippen way to stupid in these movies. In Moria for example instead of one stone it was a whole suit of armor, chain, bucket and skeleton! Also they kept having him be an idiot he was supposed to prove himself in Gondor and they made the whole Fealty swearing to Denethor a joke and later, they had him make light of his word "surely they dont expect me to fight?' Pippen was supposed to be lighthearted, not a dumbass.
     
  14. elvenarcherinarms

    elvenarcherinarms Fellow Archr of Mirkwood

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Don't you think that they might show the Dead Army taking out teh Corsairs of Umbar? They ought to, it was in the GBA game [I suspect since the games made by EA were closely lined with the movies]. But we will see come November 2004.
     
  15. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,265
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Englands Green and Pleasant Lands
    Ratings:
    +91 / 0 / -0
    Before I was just saying that i dont think they were all haradrim, the rag tag comment was just about who they were in terms of culturally, I know that they were an organised group of mecenaries. I was merely trying to follow up with the conversation. They dock in umbar, but despite the haradrim control i dont think the corsairs were entirely made up of haradrim, that was all i meant.
     
  16. Kal-EL

    Kal-EL New Supes costume sucks

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0
    Has anyone mentioned the exclusion of the wildmen that led the Rohirrim around the orc army guarding the northern road into Gondor?

    I thought that it would have made great visual, although I could see that only hardcore fans would appreciate it.
     
  17. Witchking of WDM

    Witchking of WDM New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I so disappointed in seeing Theoden and Eowyn together with Eowyn walking around like killing the Witchking is no big deal. I expected to see it play out like the book
    when we see that shot of Eomer cradling Eowyn and crying out in the trailer. Bah. (I did though enjoy her fighting the Witchking/Fell beast.)

    I hope it gets reworked for EE DVD.
     
  18. DohHunter

    DohHunter Community Defender

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    In the Extended Edition.

    As with the silent watchers, in the extended edition.
     
  19. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,265
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Englands Green and Pleasant Lands
    Ratings:
    +91 / 0 / -0
    i saw the silent watchers at cirith ungol, they looked right but they did nothing.

    speaking of the wildmen, did you see the pukel men, the statues where the rohirrim camp, they looked pretty cool, you see them really well when elrond rides up.
     
  20. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    13,524
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Elysium
    Ratings:
    +165 / 0 / -0
    I thought overall the changes were OK, but I didn't like the fact that Merry was at the black gate... that really kind of tweeked my nose. There were a lot of other things I didn't like also, but then again, there were more things that I DID like than things that I DIDNT like :)