Censorship and big brother society meddling.

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Emelie, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I agree, mostly... but we all have the power of 'No'. That is we can say "no" to something that we find unacceptable. I simply don't want to do that for somebody else, at least when it comes to words and images... within limits of course, which makes me a hypocrite same as you.

    Let's take here at TFF as a sort of microcosm of the real world... I start a thread called "Portrait of Emelie", it's meant as fun, a little bit naughty, but fun. Cru finds it unacceptable and alerts the mods (attempt to censor)... you and I, and everyone else are now having our freedom of expression imposed upon by Cru. Cru could ignore the thread, that is exercise her right to say "no" but she doesn't limit herself to that, does she? This kind of thing happens in the real world a million times over until we're left with people who mistake political correctness and being nice, with liberty.
     
  2. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    I believe they have a right to their opinion Sparrow, just not that they have a right to use it to hurt others. If somebody wants to sit at home and hate somebody else, that's no business of mine and I don't have a problem with that. However, when people distribute hate literature that rounds up others to go out and commit violent acts against other people... I'm not good with that and I have a right to not be good with it. That's why we have laws: to prevent that kind of thing from happening. If we didn't we wouldn't have a society at all, just an anarchist state where everybody did whatever the heck they wanted to. I have the right to hate you and I feel like killing you, so why not? No thanks! I'd rather take a poorly run government over that situation any day, but that's just me. I can't see how a society can operate effectively without rules of any kind since there are as many opinions and beliefs out there as there are people. I'd love to hear your opinion on the matter though.

    As for me personally dictating the line of "common sense" for anyone else, I'm not sure where you're coming up with that from. Government decides where that line of common sense should be for everyone. I don't run for politics which does not put me in any position to be dictating the law that my society has to follow. I do vote to contribute my opinion on where that collective line of common sense should be. You also have your vote and so does everyone else who lives in a democracy. I can't believe that you of all people would refuse to use it and fail to contribute your own vision of where that line of common sense should be, or am I wrong about that? I fully intend to use mine to reflect my views and the racists and writers of hate literature are free to do the same. Our opinions may differ Sparrow but that doesn't mean we don't have an equal say. At least we each get to have our say... just like in this debate thread. :)
     
  3. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    I think, to learn/to read about rape/murder and racism, should be urged to do it school because it is the only way to tear down that wall of "difference" in society, as you have pointed out in several threads there is no need to sort people...and yet we all do; if we have lean better about "feelings" of person who has gone trough hell back, maybe we/other could understand them better - and stop judging them.

    Because people change, no matter how you look- most of us are still not feeling safe living next to a murdered are a rapist; without even knowing what - and why was his crime done...
     
  4. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    thats absolutely right. we should read about it in that way that it is educational or enlightening, surving some good purpose in that way. removing prejudice would be great... However. if theres a rapist, murderer or pheado living next to me... it really doesent matter if i know this person is a complete idiot, pr had a troubled and abused childhood, no parents or whatever made that person behave in a way that led to what they did. i will still not like them. so in the ens it doesent matter what and why someone raped another...
    and of course i think that non prejudice can be taught with classes as they do already. at least on University level here in Sweden. however id like to see it in lower ages as well.
     
  5. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    I still thunk that reason "why" it has been done is important, and people change - so sort all murderers and rapists by the same act is sort of wrong, I am not saying that they should not be punished, but I do say that after punishment they should be seen as equals.
     
  6. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    yeah of course most people should be given a second chance and still be seen as equals. but then again, someone who has taken or destroyed another persons life.. that person that died never gets a second chance.
     
  7. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Well you do have a point there. There's always a fine fine balance to everything, and since we are so many different individuals here on this earth with a billion different opinions, there can never really be true liberty or freedom of speech in that sense.
     
  8. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I'll tell you one thing...in 2002-2003...there was a big scandal in my country about "fruit" slotmachines and Poker games.For good or for bad they were considered illegal.And when that scandal was happening,the minister who was in charge of purging the country of these money-eating gambling machines was cought on hidden camera playing on a slot-machine too!

    Anyway,our "wise" government and the people who were in it,in all their wisdom decided to ban ALL multiplayer games and pretty much ALL games from internet cafes.Yup.All.
    So you couldn't go to an internet cafe with 10-12 friends and say "we'll play Counterstrike" or "We'll play a multiplayer Age of Empires 2" or "Warcraft 3" or anything.

    While that wasn't that much of a personal interference of the State in our lives,it was a kind of crazy reaction from the state because simply in my country people love going to net cafes and playing multiplayer games with their friends and other ppl.
     
  9. jake1964

    jake1964 Old enough to be your dad

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    I included a disclaimer.
    But, I believe no matter who the author was, it was an opinion on government in general.
    And as such, it is a word of caution to those who would have their government do more and more in the guise of serving the public.

    Also...
    The English monarchy we had just won our freedom from was indeed a government that could have inspired that kind of sentiment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  10. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    And I totally agree with you on that.
    We're never completely free and our liberty is always subject to review.


    I'm sure you've heard the news by now, the bombing at the Boston Marathon. My gut feeling is that this isn't the work of Islamic terrorists, but most likely by a homegrown anti-government nutjob. We've had several of these over the last twenty years or so and they end up being some racist individual or small group of like-minded people who as it turns out, have been visiting hate blogs and reading/distributing hate literature. These hate blogs and websites fall under our free speech laws so they exist and they spread their racism, anti-government conspiracies and whatnot. It only takes the one person to stumble on to one of these sites and it flips his switch and he takes it to another level where people get hurt or killed. So of course after one of these horrific events we have a halfhearted debate on whether these hate blogs and websites should be included under our free speech laws, and we debate gun laws... and as you might suspect, nothing really changes.

    We Americans balance our freedoms a little bit differently than do you Europeans and Scandinavians. It's much more tilted towards the individual than the countervailing concerns of society.

    This is from Benjamin Franklin and probably explains the historical American mindset pretty well... "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". America is a more dangerous place, in part because of our expanded freedoms. I think there's a perverse beauty to it, myself. An eight year old boy who died in Boston yesterday and his grieving parents and sister are what we sometimes have to sacrifice for those freedoms and for a less intrusive government. I think maybe that's the fine balance we're talking about. Like everybody else I sometimes forget that real people pay the price when the balance is off.
     
  11. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    I think there has to be a balance and that no system of government is perfect. There's absolutely no way any government can represent everybody's interests perfectly. It's a fine line to walk between preserving individual freedom and maintaining some kind of cohesion in society by laying down the law. Real people do pay the price when the balance is off and that holds a society accountable for its values. As thinking persons I think it's our responsibility to decide where we sit comfortably on that spectrum of freedom vs necessary restrictions and vote accordingly.
    Also if somebody has serious moral objections to where that collective line of common sense sits they still have the option of breaking the law and facing the possible consequences of their decision. Whatever happened at the Boston marathon is one horrid example, the movie "Schindler's List" illustrates the other side of it. There's balance in all things and we often have no choice but to take the good with the bad because the two are inextricably entwined.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  12. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    The more I read about Sparrow views, the more I think that he is the member " anonymous" hacker group, because the goals and the postulates are kind of similar...

    and the censorship is everywhere it would be naive to think that it is not, because why would all world be so mad at wiki-leaks, if they had nothing to hide?

    Governments are corrupt. More or less, but all governments are, so the only way it can stay that way is to limit other from information - so local censorship is applied, because none of us know what really happens in our governments.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  13. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Well I think when it comes to the government and information kept from the people that is going to affect them, thats just..... I dont even know what to say. I'm so happy that Wikileaks exist.
     
  14. mareno91

    mareno91 New Member

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    All I know is... That even all you see, hear and touch, it doesnt really make it real ? now does it ? :p