Censorship and big brother society meddling.

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Emelie, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Anon's country wants to censor homosexuality in textbooks and sweden wants to stalk everyones lives.

    What do you guys feel about the government messing with your personal life more and more? I guess its not just here its like that. But it's pretty much starting to get on my nerves, and have for years and years. I remember having thoughts when I was a kid that I wanted to live in the forest, outside the eyes of the government.. and sweden isnt even as bad with this as many other countries! But I just feel that they meddle to much. We are free people that shouldn't be supervised or having the big state always watching us. Now of course, to some extent, its needed. Criminals, welfare and all that.

    Tell me how you feel about this and in connection to where you live, examples of stuff that annoys you and what could replace it etc.
     
  2. JIM

    JIM zombie Turncoat

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    not sure what you mean really, we have a lot of freedom compared with the rest of the world i think, i've never been in a situation where i felt i was being controlled, or watched. sure, there are camera's in the city centre, and in shopping centres, but that just makes sense lol. i've used those cameras myself to press charges on thieves.
     
  3. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    I'm too rather annoyed by this, Emelie. I constantly feel like a bad person in bigger cities, always being suspected of doing something wrong.
    It got even worse here in germany, because apparently a law has been passed, unnoticed by the general population, that allows the government the following thing:
    Situation: let's assume you get caught with a fair amount of drugs in your bag.
    Police takes you in for questioning and then they can hint at the new law-thingy that allows you the following:
    You can tell on everyone you know who has done anything wrong - and it will reduce your sentence.
    Like tell the police, that your mom employs an illegal housekeeper - which has nothing to do with drugs. Or tell them that your friend downloads movies illegally... etc
    Basically for every secret you unveil, your sentence gets reduced even more. And this doesn't happen in court, nope it happens in the police station.
    That is seriously messed up. Like the "German Democratic Republic" system, where everybody spied on everyone else.
     
  4. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    We don't compared to many other countries, but all the time there's new laws and stuff that allows for more and more surveillance, in places where there havent really been that before.
    Well I guess to give some examples of some things that can annoy me; the internet providers here must store all internet traffic, so that others can look that up I guess. That goes for emails and calls. Then there's the email and phone surveillance that can occur with the FRA law.
    Right now there's not too many laws that gives them permission to meddle too much in people's lives. But there are always new ones that are brought up before the parliament. Things that will get others to be able to store more and more information about everyone and go in and dig around in your personal life.. I just dont like it..
     
  5. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    I guess its smart for catching more and more people, but reducing someones sentence the more people they tell on doesnt really seem ethical. That person still did something bad.
     
  6. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I've never really felt too watched or anything. Including online and in person. The only thing I thought was really bad in Australia was not having an R18+ rating for video games here. But we have that now. If anything I wish the Government was more strict in imposing rules sometimes.
     
  7. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Running its my understanding that most police groups have used that method for generations; I'm actually surprised that it wasn't already present in the German legal system and the new law might actually be a way to formalise what was happening before within the legal structure (therefore promoting a fairer playing field and giving guidelines and restrictions on what can and can't be offered - it might also mean that instead of taking up Judge and court time agreeing to deals the police themselves are more empowered with a selection of automatically pre-approved offers to put on the table).

    The idea of catching one criminal and then using that to find others is a valid approach to dealing with crime since few criminals act alone. Also don't forget that being a "snitch" in the criminal world is not a very safe position so many still won't go for the deals simply because if it ever does get found out they have a nasty time in gaol.


    I'm not a fan of the whole big-brother situation. I can see justification for some things like CCTV in built up areas of urban settlements (esp on Friday nights where drunken activities can spiral out of control very easily). That said I'd honestly prefer a few more police on the beat over cameras watching. What annoys me more is that a vast number of CCTV cameras are utter rubbish to the point where even if they do watch you they can't see anything meaningful! So yeah they can see that 3 people in hoodies broke into a shop - they can't see the faces nor really tell anything more than that there were hoodie shaped blobs involved.


    As for online I think its foolish and overrated. It's the argument of trying to catch a very tiny number of people who are already going to be hiding their tracks by hitting the whole population with sanctions and being monitored.
     
  8. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    I hate that our country spends more money "festivals' and cultural events per year than on education.
     
  9. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    well, it was used all this time here as well, but they offered deals for crimes having to do with the original crime committed. If you're a drug dealer, they asked about other drug dealers. Now though, you can just talk about every offense ever. Thus snitching on people who aren't even real criminals, but simply overstep the law at some point or other.
     
  10. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Welp, as far as Big Brother goes... I feel if you're not willing to make a stand against it than you ought not complain about it. Big Brother only works where apathy and cowardice are present. Heck, people complain about how our governments are becoming more involved in our daily lives and somehow limiting our freedoms... but from what I see the vast majority of people don't know what to do with the freedom they already enjoy.

    The only really big judicial development in America that bothers me some are the Hate Crime Laws that have passed in recent years. I don't think the government should be defining what is, and what is not a Hate Crime. But then we get to more complicated issues like marriage, and government defining what constitutes a legal marriage... I believe that gay people should be able to marry and have that marriage recognized in all 50 States... but I'm against bigamy. Though I steadfastly believe that bigamy is an essentially abusive arrangement for women, I shouldn't want to force my beliefs on others. So where do you draw the line, because it will need to be drawn someplace?

    Do we want to talk about Abortion?

    So you'all are against censorship, or so you say?
    It sounds so easy and politically correct when all you want is gay literature to be represented in our schools... but are you willing to accept racist literature, literature that exploits women, etc?
     
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  11. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    wow, I never thought of that aspect, if we let one thing go. ..why then rape, murder and other should not be allowed...

    nice thought sparrow.

    that is what I wanted to hear in my thread...not how homosexuality is or isnt natural
     
  12. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    That is not at all what I said.;)

    Rape, murder, and the like are not in the grey area... at least as I see it.

    Marriage laws, abortion, censorship issues, Big Brother promoting/suppressing certain things... the things we all struggle with and that tend to turn us into hypocrites.
     
  13. jake1964

    jake1964 Old enough to be your dad

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    "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have."

    Quote has been attributed to Thomas Jefferson. Although this has never been confirmed.
     
  14. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Thomas Jefferson couldn't possibly have said that because during his lifetime the Federal Government wasn't nearly big enough to warrant such sentiment. There was almost nothing in our Federal Government at the time that we could equate with welfare, or social programs.

    I believe it was Gerald Ford who said that.
     
  15. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    1) Does it infringe on the Bill of Rights as it stands? Most importantly IV in this aspect.
    2) Does it go beyond the mandate given to the federal government or infringe on the rights of the legislative branch, judicial branch, or the rights of the states?
    3) Does it mimic one of the transgressions stated in the Declaration of Independence?
    4) Does it infringe on the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

    If the answer is yes to any of these questions (and probably a few others that I can't think of) the answer is that no, it should not be legal. Homosexuality is not mentioned at all and does violate the right to the pursuit of happiness and protections of speech, pending situation, and is thus illegal to be made a law against, at the federal level at the very least.
     
  16. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    It's not really the same thing, raping, hatecrimes and such things are illegal, and frowned upon by the vast majority. And therefore censored. Being gay isnt. Can't really compare a rapist to a gay person......................
     
  17. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    Agreed. You can't compare racism and hate literature to homosexuality. Homosexual people aren't hurting anyone else simply by being homosexual. The same can't be said of racists or people who write and distribute hate literature. Those people ARE hurting others and that's counter-productive to maintaining a cohesive society. Variation and differences of opinion are valid in my opinion, but there's a line where they can lead to danger for someone who holds an opposite opinion. If somebody doesn't have the common sense to know where that line is, there should be a law in place to prevent them from crossing it. Basically, if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it. Granted we all fail at that a lot but if you totally get rid of that concept in the interest of "freedom", I think everything would fall apart. It strikes me as a really bad idea for a government to let that happen.

    As for the "big brother" issue I have no problem with people being caught and held accountable for things they do that hurt others. I do have issues with surveillance that is used for purposes not related to that. For example: tracking consumer trends for advertising purposes (the targeted ads that pop up in my web browser are a great example), blackmail or just plain old "being nosy". If I type my address into Google Earth and hit "street view" I can look into my front windows and see what kind of toys my kids were playing with 2 years ago on my driveway.... unbelievable. Google never asked for my consent before posting those images for anyone to see. Don't even get me started with "cookies" and all the information that web browsers collect. Somebody somewhere is analyzing all that stuff... even when you supposedly "disable it" on your system. I think these kinds of things are more of a problem than laws and cameras in public places to prevent crimes really.
     
  18. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    But you're not seeing the grand scheme here... you say you don't want the Government looking over your shoulder and imposing itself on you, but here you are imposing your will (via government censorship) on others? Since you live in a democracy it isn't a question of 'Big Brother' infringing on your liberty... it's your fellow Swedes that do that... and in turn you yourself are limiting the freedoms of other citizens.

    Rape, racism, etc, and all matter of disgusting human behavior are represented in some literature... why should they be censored? I think what you want is a nice safe environment where you're not made to feel uncomfortable, where everyone respects everyone else as equals?


    Emelie, in turn you are now imposing your will on others.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  19. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    But I guess there's one thing to have things forced upon you, and one thing to have the freedom to eg. look things up. If people want texts with rape, there literature to find, if one wants. however, if I don't want companies to store everything I do, online, with my money etc. its not really easy to do.
     
  20. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    You have got to be kidding me, really?

    People who write and distribute hate material have every right to their opinion, just as you have a right to yours.

    Why should other people be dictated to by you on what you believe to be "counter-productive to maintaining a cohesive society"... to tell you the truth, that statement scares me far more than what any racist has to say or write. So you feel free to define and dictate what the bounds of "common sense" are?.. that because words and opinions have the power to hurt people, that they should in turn be censored?

    I am really astounded that you feel so confident in knowing what is and what is not acceptable that you're ready to impose your will on others. This is like political correctness run amuck. Isn't odd though... what the Nazis, Communists, and Religious Fanatics failed to do in our various western democracies over the decades... can now be done by Mother Hens.