Bush opinions

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by carolinethepirate, May 30, 2006.

  1. Justice

    Justice New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0
    With a drop of nearly 80% in Baghdad related violence shortly after the troop surge, I can finally say for one after a very long time Bush has made some smart decisions regarding his war policy.

    Of course the majority of terrorists are just trying to hide out and weather this escalation, but when the Iraqi's take responsibility for their own nation it no longer is our problem.

    Democrats have really jeopardized themselves in their anti-war stance. Most Americans felt the resolution to denounce the troop surge was a waste of time, and indeed it was. Now with Generals reporting incredibly dramatic drops in violence across the Baghdad / Al Anbar province, it seems that Democrats are shutting up about the troop surge and trying to focus on the big picture.

    And again it seems there have already been statements about lies / lying us into a war/ so on and so forth. I find it interesting that no examples are given though. No WMD's is not a lie. It may have been incorrect data, but to say Bush lied then we also have to add Bill Clinton, Russia, England, the U.N. and all the other sources which the US based their claims on. After all, the Iraq war really started during the 1998 bombing campaign under Bill Clinton when several "WMD factories" were destroyed.

    I've seen "the US has killed 650,000 Iraqi's" every now and then too. Funny that number is nearly 6 times greater than the U.N. estimate. The polling data which shows 600,000 dead is pure far left propaganda. They interviewed some families in specifically violent regions, asked how many people were killed rather than getting a true body count, then averaging it upwards to match the entire countries population. No wonder it came out 6 times too high.

    Plus I even take the 100,000 number to task. First, does that count terrorists and insurgents? US forces have killed tens of thousands of them. Second, does that include Iraqi's killed by sectarian violence? The sectarian struggle in Iraq is many times higher than what the US has done. The number of innocent Iraqi's killed? That number can never be known. Does that count Iraqi's housing terrorists killed by US gunfire? Or when terrorists use innocent people as human shields?

    This is a very difficult issue and it isn't one that is easy to explain or understand at times. However I, like most Americans, believe that the US is trying to do a noble thing in Iraq. The Iraqi's just haven't stepped up. They've decided revenge on each other is more important than a stable future for their children.
     
  2. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    As soon as the US troops pull out, Iraq will implode. SO rather than 20 years under Saddam's boot, they'l soon be under the rule of Islamic fundamentalists. I reckon Sharia law will be proclaimed within 12 months of the US pulling out.

    Stupid human nature. If it's not a foreign invader, we'll turn and fight against our next door neighbour. It's like we need aggression and conflict in our lives.
     
  3. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,128
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    t' hEmerald hOile
    Ratings:
    +62 / 0 / -0
    No Mub, someone to blame.
     
  4. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,874
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    I don't know if I'm allowed to link to videos, but I think this video pretty much sums up the views of a lot of Americans these days.
    Sorry for reviving this old thread, but I thought it was pretty interesting to have someone on the news doing this kind of thing.
     
  5. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    He talked about the election "in a couple of years" so I'm guessing this was 2006-ish? But anyway, it's pretty true. The world went from having their hearts open to America after a horrible tragedy to largely going back to hating it again, or hating it worse than before. Of course there were other issues involved, but talk about a PR blunder.

    I also agree that, whether America stays for another 10 years or leaves tomorrow, as soon as they leave, Iraq will implode. You think it's bad now? Just wait till the Americans who are trying and somewhat succeeding to keep the peace, leave. The militants will kill all the police and security forces, then the biggest meanest dog will take control. And America will wash their hands of it all and say "Hey, we gave you an election, this is not our problem." Largely true, and also largely false.

    But you're dealing with neighbours who hate each other, so they're always going to fight.

    I think the world is just waiting to see how the next President of the USA handles the war, and foreign policy. I know I am.
     
  6. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    ^and the answer seems to be, kinda the same way Bush did.
     
  7. warrior_squirrel21

    warrior_squirrel21 blue is my favorite color

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ina hills a Tennessee
    Ratings:
    +132 / 0 / -0
    Hardly at all magus. Obama's policy is trying to win over he's a more careing president so he sends in more remote guided missle attacks than we've been previously been doing. While these certainly do the job most of the time, they don't care about what they blow up. Smartbombs dont have feelings.

    At least he's increasing troop levels in Afghanistan instead of bombing the balls off of it. Now before everybody starts putting the "so you'd rather risk American lives than foriegn ones" trip on me remember this. The key to winning this war (if thats even freakin possible :p) is the Afghan peasant. We need the support of these people to find insurgent locations so we can destroy them. These people are constantly threatend by terrorist to not help the Americans or else. Some are even sympothizers.

    We need boots on the ground to assure the locals we can keep them safe, even if we cant. Lazer guided missles blowing the sh** outa a guys house with a smart bomb because you 'think' a high ranking al quida member is in there isnt the best way to convince someone.
     
  8. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0
    And there's still the major bs debt that has been exacerbated via all the military spending. My memory is a bit hazy, but it seems that Bush started the whole thing he decided to bomb Iraq for fun. Afghan was a necessary evil b/c of 911. Iraq was an absurdity not b/c of the WMD, but the shit fact that the Yanks are still fighting at the Afghan front. As what Robert Gates has said recently, the nature and extent of the debt is really ridiculous. So what's next? The commies at the Far East knocking on the US door? And I don't mean North Korea ffs. -.-
     
  9. warrior_squirrel21

    warrior_squirrel21 blue is my favorite color

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ina hills a Tennessee
    Ratings:
    +132 / 0 / -0
    We invaded Iraq for oil and to finish what the gulf war started. we just needed an excuse cus our real reason wouldn't exactly fly with the UN.
     
  10. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0
    Unfortunately, shit backfired. Iraq War=More debt. And the area isn't really 100% stabilized yet tbh. And Afghan is right now FUBARed with all the drug trade and Taliban insurgency. And it's appalling that only human rights groups have openly condemned all the random abuses there. Hurray for all the political bs. -.-
     
  11. Fabled_Tales

    Fabled_Tales Middle Earth Ewok

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    I think we need to take a serious look at ourselves for electing him the second time. When the man talks like a...hm..what to say without offending everyone...like an idiot, I was sure he wouldn't get elected the 2nd time. I mean, the democratic guy was an idiot too, but at least he could finish sentences.
     
  12. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0
    Why Bush got elected second time round is because of the fact that his hawkish stance on the issue of terrorism was still widely supported at that time. Remember that the US in general were still spooked by Osama and all the other terror ****s. Have you ever wondered why the Americans supported the Iraq War during the start where in fact, the default hindsight would be the bs debt incurred right now? Manipulating fear for a common enemy has always been proven as a successful political move throughout history.
     
  13. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    they say the debt actually runs all the way back to the Regan administration during the cold war, or even farther back. and obama seemed adamant about withdrawing troops, but continues to send more troops...
     
  14. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0
    I'm not too sure abt how long the debt went back, but I remember Reagan ****ed the immigration system up that still haunts the current US society at the moment. w/o a doubt though, if not for the fact that US were fighting in two fronts, the debt wouldn't be that bad. Bush quite obviously never read history. Remember why Hitler got FUBARed in WW2? As for the troops issue, I might be wrong, but it seems that Obama is right now trying to do a pullout from Iraq so that the manpower can be focused on the Afghan front. A no wonder if that's the case. Afghan is being FUBARed atm and there's no way the US will try to create a vital back door for terrorism one way or another.
     
  15. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    agree with you on everything you said in that particular post, azuren. and ppl've been fighting in the middle east since Abraham decided to kick out one of his sons and give the inheritance to the other. your guess is as good as mine as to whether it was Isaac or Ishmael.
     
  16. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0
    The one who got the inheritance was Isaac. Ishmael was the one driven out albeit God had prophesied that Ishmael's descendants would be a great race as well. Not too sure if the modern day Arabs are descended from him though. Also on a sidenote, it's absolutely wrong to say that only the Israelites came from Isaac. He actually fathered the Edomites as well since Esau was his older son, which in my own views will be the current Jordanians.
     
  17. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    well, the above's what I believe. but Muslims believe differently, and thus the conflict.
     
  18. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0
    You're read the Koran? I'm not too sure what the Islam version said, but from what I've understood, the overall history in both the Koran and Bible are pretty much the same. Only bs causing the hatred would be the dogma. In fact, in the Koran, the Jews were referred to as People of the Book. Wait a sec, or is it Christians it's talking about? Brain gone a bit fuzzy here, but I know it's either of the two.
     
  19. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    All three people of Abraham are referred to as People of the Book. The Jews held the honor of having an aspect of what was once the true word of God, or Allah, but through the error of mankind now hold a tainted, inaccurate version, according to the Muslims. The Christians are claimed to have a better, more accurate version, having been enlightened by the "prophet" Jesus, but also have "tainted" their version of The Book with mortal inaccuracies. By the teachings of Muhammad, it is the Koran which holds the true, undulterated Word of God, unsullied by mortal errors and fully enlightened by the teachings of the last True prophet, Muhammad, peace be upon him. By Muslim teachings, it was not Isaac, but Ishmael who recieved the blessing and inheritance of the father of all the people of the Book, Abraham. But according to the teachings of the Jews and the Christians, it was Isaac, not Ishmael, who recieved the blessing and inheritance of Abraham. The "blessing" extends to land throughout the fertile crescent, its people, its produce, and the right to exist. Hence why Jews, Muslims, and Christians all are fighting over who gets or owns what.