Beginning of life - from outer space?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by clouded_perception, Mar 6, 2007.

  1. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    This seems to keep trying to wriggle its way into the evolution thread, so I think it deserves its own.

    How do you think life came into existence?

    (Note: evolution is NOT a theory for the creation of life. Unless it is directly relevant to the topic, please put posts for or against evolution in the appropriate thread.)
     
  2. Harbringer

    Harbringer New Member

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    Re: Beginning of life

    god made adam and eve and they had children which mated with their mother and made more kids and so on and so forth.
     
  3. Dwimmerlaik

    Dwimmerlaik Captain of Despair

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    Re: Beginning of life

    insest.
     
  4. Apollion

    Apollion King Arthur Geek

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    Re: Beginning of life

    What do you mean how life came into existence? Do you mean the existence of all life in the universe in general, or just life on Earth? In any case I don't know, but I don't believe a deity/deities had anything to do with it. I think life started here on Earth at least from panspermia, but that still doesn't tell where life really came from.
     
  5. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Re: Beginning of life

    Hey, you're the only person I've ever heard credit the panspermia hypothesis! Good on you.

    My favoured hypothesis is "clay theory". For those of you who haven't heard of it, here's a brief explanation courtesy of wikipedia:

    [edit] Clay theory
    A theory for the origin of life based on clay was forwarded by Dr A. Graham Cairns-Smith of the University of Glasgow in 1985 and adopted as a plausible illustration by just a handful of other scientists (including Richard Dawkins). Clay theory postulates that complex organic molecules arose gradually on a pre-existing, non-organic replication platform -- silicate crystals in solution. Complexity in companion molecules developed as a function of selection pressures on types of clay crystal is then exapted to serve the replication of organic molecules independently of their silicate "launch stage". It is, truly, "life from a rock."

    Cairns-Smith is a staunch critic of other models of chemical evolution (see Genetic Takeover: And the Mineral Origins of Life ISBN 0-521-23312-7). However, he admits, that like many models of the origin of life, his own also has its shortcomings (Horgan 1991).

    Peggy Rigou of the National Institute of Agronomic Research (INRA), in Jouy-en-Josas, France reports in the February 11, 2006 edition of Science News that prions are capable of binding to clay particles and migrate off the particles when the clay becomes negatively charged. While no reference is made in the report to implications for origin-of-life theories, this research may suggest prions as a likely pathway to early reproducing molecules.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2007
  6. Dark Lord Sauron

    Dark Lord Sauron Lord of Middle Earth

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    Re: Beginning of life

    I am an evolutionary theist and so, I believe that, through evolution, perhaps in a process like this "clay theory", perhaps through another, a divine deity created life. The complexities of molecular structure (take DNA for example) are far to elegant to attribute merely to chance. Dawkins would HATE me citing a theory he supports in this way, which makes me smile a bit :)
     
  7. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Beginning of life

    I don't think this topic and the Evolution topic are capable of remaining as 2 separate threads. It seems to be a logical thing to combine the 2 debates. However I will give it a couple of days to see how it goes.

    And genetically speaking, as Harbringer so eloquently put it, incest is what would occur in an Adam and Eve scenario. Everyone is directly related to each other. I think my gf said you need at least 200 distinct breeding pairs for a colony to survive without inbreeding causing fatal mutations by about the 4th generation. Anyone ever owned a fish tank with fish that kept breeding when you haven't added new fish to it? Pretty soon they start getting all messed up and die.

    I believe life on earth came into being by the long slow process of (unguided) evolution. Personally I see nature as being miraculous enough, I don't need to look for evidence of a creator.

    You see??? It's already come down to an evolution vs creation argument.

    But I'll give it a while to see what happens........
     
  8. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Re: Beginning of life

    Dark Lord Sauron, can you tell me why you infer a creator into the design? Just curious.

    I have a problem with Dawkins: Everything he says is wonderfully easy to understand, but then without warning he branches off onto one of his fanciful science fiction rants and suddenly you're not reading about science any more. Other than that, though, he's great.
     
  9. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Re: Beginning of life

    As I have said in the Evolutionary thread (which I know for a fact this will be combined with it because the subjects are closely related)
    I believe that God created the spark of life on Earth. I do not believe that humans and the other animals sprung from nothing to the forms we know now, that is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. I believe that after the celestial spark of life and after the laws of nature were created life began its evolutionary process. In essence, God created a life form, be it amoeba or some other beginning life, and genetically installed the self-propelled process of evolution.
    I do not beleive that Adam and Eve were the first of human kind, maybe they were just the ones singled out for the story or maybe it was just some vast poetical metaphor or parable. I didnt write it so I dont know.
    I refer to the story of the pocket watch which I posted in the other thread.
    If you see a pocket watch in the middle of a field you automatically know that nature did not create this for it is too complex so there must be a watch designer, humans as well as other life are more complex than a simple pocket watch so to think that life put itself together is just as strange as thinking the watch put itself together, there must have been a designer.
     
  10. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Re: Beginning of life

    I think current scientific thinking is that the most basic organism which has a chemical reaction is/are strands of nucleric (sp?) acids which have the Darwinian fundamentals ie the ability to grow / reproduce.

    It just doesn't have the same ring to it though does it ~ '& God made a nucleric Acid' ~ in his own image (presumably) ~ it just sounds a bit unimpressive :eek: :)
     
  11. Jendra

    Jendra Jendra

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    Re: Beginning of life

    I believe that the universe was created as mature by God.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2007
  12. Apollion

    Apollion King Arthur Geek

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    Re: Beginning of life

    I really think y'all should read "Lonely Planets" by David Grinspoon. It's not just actually about extraterrestrial life, but talks about the different theories about how life got here/adapted in general. I don't remember a lot of the details in the book(since Grinspoon talks about many subjects) since I read it in 8th grade. But I think ultimately it says in the book that all life, no matter where you're are from, including what part of the universe you're from, everything is related to each other, down to the smallest molecule in your body. At least, that's what I thought Grinspoon wrote, or something similar to that.

    Under our interiors, we're all the same. If only humanity could see that fully...
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2007
  13. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Re: Beginning of life

    So, Alchemist, you're going for divine creation?

    Just making sure I've got all this straight...

    I don't thinks the topics are that closely related, I mean, yes, they both touch on the god topic (as does the God thread, and the Christianity thread to a degree), but if we tried to talk about origin of life and evolution of life in the same thread it'd get confusing about which one we were talking about at any given time.
     
  14. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Re: Beginning of life

    In a sense I do, I by no means believe or follow or hold credit to Creationism. I have the creationist site bookmarked, and refer to it alot to make sure I know what they are trying to get at...but its so completely unscientific its laughable. Seemingly their only source for "Evidence" is that the Bible said so.
    And that is something else I dont follow.

    But yeah, I believe God began life, and gave life the ability to continue, adapt, and evolve on its own.
     
  15. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Re: Beginning of life

    Just curious: Do you see this ability to continue, adapt and evolve as a simple consequence of the physical laws, or as a central focus in their design?
     
  16. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Re: Beginning of life

    Actually both. Adaptation is a form of consequence of the environment, but it is also the central point of the design to be able to do this.
     
  17. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Re: Beginning of life

    Righto.

    I'm going to stick with clay theory (which is actually a hypothesis :) I'm a bit of nit-picker with this stuff... sorry.)

    Where'd that panspermia guy go? I'd be interested in some information behind the reasoning of that one, if anybody has it.
     
  18. Jendra

    Jendra Jendra

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    Re: Beginning of life

    Where'd the spark of life come from, though?
     
  19. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Re: Beginning of life

    Are ou talking to me, Jendra?

    If so, what 'spark of life'?
     
  20. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Beginning of life

    What prompted the raw materials to go "zap" and start living.