Atheists

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Infinitum007, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    Probably the most apt way to sum it up. However maybe instead of "Religion" it should have "beliefs" on there in order to cater for the over zealous atheist's in the world!!

    And here I was thinking it was to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women! :p
     
  2. RsJessen

    RsJessen Amazingly mad

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    I understand your point of view, but I don't think it really applies to me. Just because I want to live life to the fullest and try boundaries, doesn't mean I'll do it with no regards for others. Many (in Denmark, mind you) would actually call me a bit conservative. Living life to the fullest is a different thing for me than it is for you. That just means trying the things I want to try and that spikes me interest. Travelling, loving, do everything in my power to have an exciting life. My idea of an exciting life, however, if not one were to do things that hurt others and don't care about it. But I admit, I have hurt people along the way, everybody has no matter what choice of life they have made, and I have regrets about it. When I say I want regrets, I don't mean those kinds, but the ones like: "Yeah, I tried weed once, I regret that because I fell out of a tree and broke my arm." and the likes. Just because I drink and party and do things I want to do doesn't mean I'm not acting like a respectable person. I'm 19, I doing my last year in college and will be of to the university next year, I'm a dedicated student, I get good grades and I always have my work done. I respect my parents and I follow their rules, I've also never done anything illigal. Doesn't mean my life can't be fun.
     
  3. RsJessen

    RsJessen Amazingly mad

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    Oh I'm aware, religion isn't something to be forced, and nobody (well some do..But the shouldn't) forces people to believe. Doesn't mean that a person can't have the need to have religion in their life, perhaps to deal with other issues that they cant handle and need help dealing with. I'm sure it's much easier for a mum to accept the death of their child, if they "realize" that it was Gods will rather than a series of unfortunate events. It also helps people deal with their own death. Personally I would love to be able to believe, that way I wouldn't have the deal with my own fear about never being aware of anything again after I die.
     
  4. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    My own view is that life shouldn't be about fun or free from pain.

    I'd argue that you haven't really lived until you've wantonly broken the law or done things so insanely stupid that years afterward it's hard to believe you were that same person back then. :)


    I'm the kid who was falling from trees... when I was seven I fell from the tree in our front yard, knocked myself out and busted my gut (double hernia operation). My parents forbid me from climbing the tree ever again... I secretly built a treehouse... that was subsequently discovered in the Fall of that year... when all the leaves fell from the tree.
     
  5. RsJessen

    RsJessen Amazingly mad

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    I still don't think you get the gist of what I'm saying.
    As I've been saying all along: I want regrets, because regrets means that I've lived and tried things.

    But when I talk about regrets i's clearly not the same way as you do, for me a regret is: damn, shouldn't have slept with that guy last night or man, I shouldn't have had that much beer, I made a fool out of myself!

    I wouldn't call climbing a tree as a child and falling out a regret, because that's something everybody's done to some extent. Nor was it what I meant when I wrote climb a tree. I meant as an "adult", as a result of a crazy party of something. A great example is that two years ago, I had a lot to drink and I fell down a flight of stair and broke my foot. Because of that I still have pains in that foot once in a while, yet that weekend was one of the funniest weekends ever. I still regret falling down and breaking my foot, doesn't mean I regret going on the weekend. That's the kind of regrets I want!

    Now I would like to point out I don't break the law, have never broken the law, and (most likely) will not break the law. Doesn't mean I don't have fun though.

    Also, I'm 19, I shouldn't be concerned about what'll happen to me, beyond school and the choice I have to make now.

    I'd also like to say your parents seem strict from forbidding you from climbing a tree, just because you fell. A child is suppose to fall down, otherwise they'll never learn how to get back up again.
     
  6. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I get what you're saying with regrets. But I don't want regrets in life, I want experience without regrets. Often they are unavoidable and you just learn from it and move on. But best is to experience life as it should be for you. So you can say, "I didin't drink that much beer. Well no regrets there, I would probably have made a fool out of myself." Or the other example of you gave, falling down those stairs. I think I could still have had a fun weekend without falling and breaking my foot.
     
  7. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    But why live like that?

    If you don't test your limits, going beyond your limits and risking safety and comfort you won't really experience life, will you? Indeed, you will have experiences in your life, and perhaps if you calculate those experiences well enough you might mitigate the inevitable regrets... but isn't that living at half speed? I've had some spectacular failures in my life, and some horrible regrets and "what ifs" by the dozens. Isn't that how we find ourself?
     
  8. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Who says I don't take risks, of course I do. But mainly when I was younger, more of a rascal. I live life on a routine that I still enjoy, still taking risks, as you call them, from time to time. But there's something that stands in the way and that responsabilities. And I have to live by them, but that doesn't mean life is less fun. If you are happy the way life flows... If you have followed your bliss, then of course it's not 'living at half speed'... Then you have everything you desire. I'm not saying I have reached my bliss... But I'm trying to get there.
     
  9. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    I thought this was a great quote, and it's very true too. Look how different the worship on The One True God for Christianity, Islam, Judaism, is from the old ways of worshipping many gods. Or from the even older ways of worshipping the sun and the moon and the seasons. Which reinforces the notion that religion is made by man, changed by man, adapted into whatever fits the needs and understanding of the time.

     
  10. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Sounds a bit harsh, but basically I do think it's true what he says.
     
  11. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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  12. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    He was one of the finest essayists of our time. One of only a few modern writers whose pen was mightier than a sword.

    Who else had the balls to take on the Mother Teresa myth, and to call it for what it is, a fraud.

    Hitchens, a champion of atheism. RIP.
     
  13. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    "For of two hypotheses equally in accord with the empirical facts, scientists will always prefer the one which makes the universe more of a rational system to the one which does not. Science does this even though neither hypothesis is capable of rationalizing the universe completely or even of giving a complete ultimate explanation of the phenomena in question. It is sufficient that the hypothesis adopted brings us a step nearer to the ideal of a fully coherent, rationally explicable world. Now theism cannot indeed completely rationalize the universe till it can show how God can be his own cause, or how it is that he does not need a cause, and till it can also overcome the problem of evil completely, but it does come nearer to rationalizing it that does any other view. "

    "If it would be absurd to suppose inorganic matter coming together fortuitously of itself to form a motor car, it would be even more absurd to suppose it thus together to form an organism, so without design the evolutionary process would never get started at all."

    "Suppose we saw pebbles on the shore arranged in such a way as to make an elaborate machine. It is theoretically possible that they might have come to occupy such positions by mere chance, but it is fantastically unlikely, and we should feel no hesitation in jumping to the conclusion that they had been thus deposited not by the tide but by some intelligent agent. Yet the body of the simplest living creature is a more complex machine than the most complex ever devised by a human engineer."
     
  14. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Nicely sums up why quite a few scientists end up believers in latter life when they started out as atheists. Though they might not believe in Christianity or any other formally accepted religion the order present and the amazing chance of life itself gives them the option to suppose that there is something greater than ourselves that might have had a "hand" in creation.
     
  15. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Yeah, exactly. I'm basically a Christian but I definitely agree with agnostics on a lot of stuff.
     
  16. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I think there'd be more Christains if the Vatican were to be a little more Christian themselves - richness and a big denial of any crimes of the church tends to somewhat poison their own waters.
     
  17. gumboot

    gumboot lorcutus.tolere

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    The intelligent design argument is generally only cited by people who don't actually understand evolution. The human eye is a classic example that's often cited, yet science has a pretty good grasp of the evolution of the eye, from its simplest form.

    I think part of the problem is people generally are not very good at grasping large numbers. If you talk about the original proto-eye evolving into all modern types of eyes over a period of 540 million years, very few people actually have any sort of grasp of what kind of time frame that is, how many generations that involves, and just how tiny and incremental those changes are.
     
  18. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I'm amazed... somebody who visits this site and has a grasp of evolution science.
    Here's an article on the eye, and how it came to be...
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html


    Some of the earliest known complex creatures had eyes...

    When you think of evolution in terms of an arms race, it begins to make sense.
     
  19. gumboot

    gumboot lorcutus.tolere

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    I'm probably a bit of an abnormality in the fantasy arena because what attracted me was the prospect of creating my own deeply realistic world. Most people seem to be attracted to fantasy for the...well... the fantastical. When you're calculating the wing-loading of a giant eagle to work out if it can physically lift its own weight (let alone a passenger or two) and you ditch dragons and winged horses because there's no evolutionary precedent for six and four limbed vertebrae evolving alongside each other... when you're tracking the phases of the moon across your story so for any given day or night you know where the moon's at, which quarter it's in, when it would rise and set... yeah I guess I've probably read up a bit more on hard sciences than your average fantasy writer... :p

    I've always felt the video to be a fantastic way of explaining simply how evolution works, how it comes in dramatic bursts separated by long periods without much change, and how evolution causes; literally, a random collection of organic elements to form themselves into a very complex machine - exactly what evolution-deniers claim is impossible.
     
  20. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
    Nor is evolution always successful. In fact, evolution has no mind or will, it just is.
    Unfortunately Creationists and their "Intelligent Design" sidekicks don't understand complexity, and that on a genetic level we are little more complex than a chimpanzee, or a tyrannosaurus rex for that matter.