ASoIaF Reread - Feb. 4 - Feb. 10

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Appaliq, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Welcome to the ASoIaF 2007 TFF Reread!

    From start to finish thus far, A Song of Ice and Fire contains 271 chapters. We have approximately 50 weeks to complete the reread if we want to be finished before 2009. That's 5.42 chapters per week. I think we should try to read 6 chapters a week. If we're lucky A Dance With Dragons will be out before the end of the year, at which time I'd really like to have the reread finished.

    This will be a casual reread. Anyone is welcome to quit or join at any time. For the sake of convienance I'll post links to the www.towerofthehand.com chapter summaries that coordinate with the chapters we are reading that week.

    Post your favorite or least favorite moments, favorite or least favorite quotes, character discussions, legitimate or crackpot theories, predictions and general comments about the assigned chapters.


    __________________

    ASoIaF Book 1
    A Game of Thrones


    Assigned Chapters: (Click Chapter Name for Summary)

    13. EDDARD II
    14. TYRION II
    15. CATELYN III
    16. SANSA I
    17. EDDARD III
    18. BRAN III
     
  2. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Well, let's hear it, slackers.
     
  3. hendy

    hendy New Member

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    Im a little confused between my chapters, because i've read ahead they have all melted together....

    Whoops
     
  4. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    I hate Sansa in GoT SOOOOOO much.

    Will update with more later today.
     
  5. Kaelmarr

    Kaelmarr Back | Valar Morghulis

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    I do too... But as Peter so wisely says, "Life is not a song, sweetling. You'll learn that one day to your sorrow."
     
  6. Ender-Zero

    Ender-Zero Ruff Mercenary

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    I always hate Sansa, always. I hate her, but some of the characters in her POV are interesting, well in later books at least, but I hate her. And Tyrion is fantastic, he is a very wise little imp, I've always felt sorry for him.
     
  7. hendy

    hendy New Member

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    Yeah, i'm not a fan of sansa either, but i'd forgotten how much I hated Catelyn !!!
     
  8. Ender-Zero

    Ender-Zero Ruff Mercenary

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    Catelyn and Sansa! Hate them both! In AGoT the only female POV's I like are Dany and Arya.
     
  9. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Let's put it this way.

    I dislike Catelyn and Sansa both as characters, but Cat's actions are understandable where Sansa's aren't. She's a horrible b**** to Jon, but the fact is that she's trying to protect her children's inheritance by making sure that Jon will never inherit.

    Now, is this a nice thing to do? No. Do I particularly like her for it? Also no. But unfortunately, Cat's a mother doing her best to look out for her children by ensuring an inheritance/arranging marriages/making Ned climb up the social ladder, because even though it's not particularly admirable, it would've been the social norm for the time period in which ASoIaF is set.

    Sansa, on the other hand, is an idiot. Her actions are driven by willful ignorance and blindness, and stupid thoughts of romance, in which she shuts herself out from reality. This is stupid, unacceptable behavior for a girl who'll have to be a noblewoman someday, even if she's been fairly sheltered by her parents; also, she's a stuck-up little prig in GoT.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2008
  10. hendy

    hendy New Member

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    I dont think its really becuse she is afraid jon will inherit, I think its more because of a personal sleight to her for Ned having a bastard, and what makes it worse for her, not knowing who the mother was/is. But she could still be civil to him!!
     
  11. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    If Catelyn's behaviour is the social norm for the time, then why isn't Sansa's? Bastards are not socially acceptable in Westeros and in treating Jon as she does she's not noticeably different from most of the other characters. Remember, it's the way Ned treats Jon and the way Jon grows up with the Starks that is utterly atypical. None of Robert's bastards get anywhere near court (not that I'd regard Robert as the epitome of moral behaviour). Ned is afraid to bring Jon south because of the way he'll be treated. Sansa's attitude towards Jon is normal for the time, not especially cruel (though I don't condone it, even I admit that AGOT is not Sansa's finest hour).

    I don't hate Catelyn either, but I don't see how she can be excused her attitude towards Jon when Sansa can't be. Unlike Sansa, she's an adult. Also unlike Sansa, she is directly cruel to Jon - she tells him she wishes he had been hurt instead of Bran! Yes, I know she's under an incredible amount of stress at the time and probably would never have said it otherwise but she deliberately tries, and succeeds, in wounding Jon. Sansa's thoughtless, she's foolish, she's obsessed with romantic ideas and her idiocy causes series harm in AGOT but I can't think of one instance where she deliberately sets to be cruel. "A stuck-up little prig", is a fairly accurate description of her but I'd still consider her actions to be closer to admirable than Cat's, given that she's still a child and Cat is an adult.
     
  12. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Clarification: Sorry about that, Lya, it's not Sansa's behavior towards Jon I was talking about - that's something that I'll understand and excuse. More like her general stupidity. IE "lie so that Joffrey will love me" "It's just like the songs!" "Oh no someone died in the tourney, who cares, because it's JUST LIKE THE SONGS!" :rolleyes:

    @ Hendy: It's really not expected behavior at the time, unfortunately. Essentially, although Ned did "what was right" for his bastard child, what he also ended up doing is humiliating his wife by acknowledging an illegitimate son and insisting that he more or less be given the same rights as her legally born children.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2008
  13. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    EDDARD

    "'We are not the boys we were.' [Eddard]
    'You were never the boy you were,' Robert grumbled."

    Robert and Eddard briefly discuss Jon's mother. Eddard confesses it was Wylla but remains tight lipped as to the details. As far as I know Ashara and Wylla are the only two possibilities that the characters within ASoIaF speak of. Unless someone remembers another?

    "'What Aerys did to your brother Brandon was unspeakable. The way your lord father died, that was unspeakable. And Rhaegar...how many times do you think he raped your sister? How many hundreds of times?' - 'I will kill every Targaryen I can get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves.'" [Robert]
    Another moment of weakness on my part as I've actually started feeling sorry for Robert.

    "Troubled sleep was no stranger to [Ned]. He has lived his lies for fourteen years, yet they still haunted him at night."
    Jon is fourteen years old. Another clue to the R + L = J theory.

    "'The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown...it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe...and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike.'"
    Poor Robert obviously isn't over Lya after all this time. I wonder, had she lived, what would have happened. Robert would have known her babe was Rhaegar's. Interesting to think about.

    TYRION

    "Tyrion had a morbid fascination with dragons."
    The dragon has three heads! Hint one!

    "When the Two Kings charged, the Targaryen army shivered and shattered and began to run. For a few moments, the chroniclers wrote, the conquest was at an end...but only for those few moments, before Aegon Targaryen and his sisters joined the battle. It was the only time that Vhaghar, Meraxes, and Balerion were all unleashed at once. The singers called it the Field of Fire."
    I really love this description. Really hints at the power the Targaryens wielded.

    "'Oh yes. Even a stunted, twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he's seated on a dragon's back.'" [Tyrion]
    The dragon has three heads! Hint two!

    "'Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it.'" [Tyrion]

    SANSA

    "Once, when she was littler, Sansa had even asked Mother if perhaps there hadn't been some mistake. Perhaps the grumkins had stolen her real sister. But Mother had only laughed and said no, Arya was her daughter and Sansa's trueborn sister, blood of their blood. Sansa could not think why Mother would want to lie about it, so she supposed it had to be true." :rolleyes:

    "'Did I say something wrong, your Grace? Why will he not speak to me?' [Sansa]
    'Ser Ilyn has not been feeling talkative these past fourteen years,' Lord Renly commented with a sly smile.'"

    "'I won't hurt him...much,' Price Joffrey told Arya, never taking his eyes off the butcher's boy.'"
    [Later, after Nymeria has 'disarmed' Joffrey]
    "'She didn't hurt you...much.'" [Arya]

    EDDARD

    "When she got to the part where she threw Joffrey's sword into the middle of the Trident, Renly Baratheon began to laugh. The king bristled. 'Ser Barristan, escort my brother from the hall before he chokes.'
    Lord Renly stifled his laughter. 'My brother is too kind. I can find the door myself.' He bowed to Joffrey. 'Perchance later you'll tell me how a nine-year-old girl the size of a wet rat managed to disarm you with a broom handle and throw your sword in the river.' As the door swung shut behind him, Ned heard him say, "Lion's Tooth" and guffaw once more."
    Too funny! I really wish Renly had been a main character, because I'm pretty certain he would have been my favorite.

    BRAN

    "...and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart." [Bran POV]
    Martin is such a good writer. It's just one sentence, but it paints such a picture. This particular image of Arya is very vivid for me and really evokes a desperate emotion.