Aragorn marrying his own kin!!

Discussion in 'Debates' started by dwarf tosser, Jan 12, 2004.

  1. ElvishTwin

    ElvishTwin Left-handed Scribe

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    Just to clear things up, if you trace back everyone's geneaology back far enough to the beginnings of civilzation, we're all related somehow, as distantly as it may be. In lotr, Aragorn and Arwen are related through Elrond and Elros. They are distant cousins, NOT brother and sister or something like that.
    ~ElvishTwin

    :dragon:
     
  2. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

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    Make that very distant cousins.
     
  3. Tilion

    Tilion Was never a

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    You want this link actually. But this is a deceptive genealogic chart, the dotted line between Elros and Aragorn stands for literally dozens of generations. Most people nowadays don't even know the family tree back that far. I've added a far superior genealogical chart :cool:.
     

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  4. Iluvatar2004

    Iluvatar2004 New Member

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    ok u know what....up until recent times, cousins marrying was not considered a big deal...and Arwen and aragorn are VERY VERY VERY distant cousins...so get over it
     
  5. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    I'd Marry Galadriel if she was my . . . .Sister:(
     
  6. walker1979

    walker1979 dream weaver

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    um....ok..
     
  7. Window Bar

    Window Bar "We Read for Light"

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    I just remember the inbred banjo-picker in the movie Deliverance. Is that the destiny of Aragorn's offspring?
     
  8. Eärenúr

    Eärenúr Vanima

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    Tolkein devised his world to be such that it was acceptable for a person to marry his (or her) kin from the second cousin onwards.

    Therefore Ar-Pharazôn committed a sin by marrying his first cousin Míriel.

    However, the mariiage of Galadriel and Celeborn was perfectly acceptable.

    • Galadriel was the daughter of Eärwen, daughter of Olwë.
    • Celeborn was the son of Galadhon, son of Elmo.
    • Olwë and Elmo were brothers, which makes Celeborn Galadriel's second cousin!

    Aragorn and Arwen are extremely distant relatives. So their marriage is legal, even by "modern day" standards (considering Middle-Earth actually existed).
     
  9. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Also since elves are greatly long lived and don't appear to lose their fertility with great old age, one would think that at the genetic level there would be some counter to the problem of the genepool becoming more limited (or marrying closer relatives).

    It would further be interesting to know how this affects things when crossbreeding occurs between man and elf as well

    This is an important consideration since it is at a genetic level that problems occur when close family relations interbreed and leads to deformities (both phyiscal and mental) and is why most societies frown upon close family relations - though in the past it was more a trial and error setup than a scientific study of genetics. (though interestingly species such as the cheetah are totaly inbred and are yet still a viable species to this day).
     
  10. Sïalla

    Sïalla New Member

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    ME was inspired in Medieval ages right? In that time I believe, it was really common for cousins to marry so I don't think this is very shocking.
    And as it was said before, they are reaaaalyyy distant cousins. very distant. just look at how old Arwen is and how old Aragon is xD
    I wouldn't look as them as related =/ because that makes me think of close connetions and they just happen to have common ancestors (from very far back, in Aragon's case).
     
  11. Ser Land

    Ser Land New Member

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    Of course he did. If you read The Silmarillion, it all becomes evident.
     
  12. WonderBroad

    WonderBroad New Member

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    The Aragorn - Arwen kinship is separated by THOUSANDS of years on Aragorn's side. The kinship they have as "cousins" is ancient. There would be absolutely no effect whatsoever on their children because of it. They may as well have been utter strangers, it's so distant.
     
  13. Vishwanath

    Vishwanath New Member

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    Even without a creationist point of view the chances are that up to 30% of the world's population are somehow or the other related to each other the only exception's being places where genetic mixing doesn't happen on a regular basis i.e The Middle East,India and Some parts of Eastern Africa and South America..
     
  14. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    Actually; the entire native population of the American continent comes from Asia, near Mongolia. And the entire human race comes from near Ethiopia. So from an evolutionist's point of view we're all related too (not to the neanderthals, but they went extinct).

    The time between the related generations and Aragorn and Arwen is pretty big. And besides, in Medieval times rulers almost always married cousins and the likes.
     
  15. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    It's certainly true that all people are descended from common ancestors but genetic diversity happens as populations diverge. New traits appear under selection pressure from the natural environment as populations are forced to adapt to new circumstances. That's presumably why human populations became much more physically diverse as they spread throughout the globe on earth.

    There's no reason to think that human populations in middle earth would have been any different. As Druid pointed out, there were many generations between Elrond's twin and Aragorn. I think it's reasonable to assume that some further genetic diversity would have developed in middle earth humans in that time. Adding to that is the fact that Aragorn's Numenorean ancestors were a sea-faring folk. That means they had plenty of opportunity to acquire fresh genes from the wider population of humans in other parts of middle earth in their travels.... further increasing their genetic diversity and thus distancing Aragorn's genetics from Arwen's.

    Some of the newer theories on genetics complicate things even more, saying that factors in the environment can turn off or on which genes are expressed. In essence that means that even though an individual carries the genetic code for a trait, it may not be expressed because something has prevented that. In other words, the gene is dormant. With all these factors into play genetics becomes a rolling game of statistics.... which genes an individual has and which ones are expressed.

    The problem with relatives having children together is that there is less genetic diversity in the offspring, leading to a higher likelihood that recessive genes will be expressed. If those genes cause a functional defect (like hemophilia and cystic fibrosis mutations do in humans), you have a problem. With all the presumed genetic diversity between them, I think Aragorn and Arwen are going to be just fine.
     
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