American Civil War poll!

Discussion in 'Polls' started by Foinikas, Aug 20, 2010.

?

Union or Confederacy?

  1. Union-The North!

    10 vote(s)
    71.4%
  2. Confederacy-The South!

    4 vote(s)
    28.6%
  1. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Yeah I just wanted to make this poll!

    It's going to be an anonymous poll so don't worry.

    So if you had to choose a side during the American Civil War who would you be with?
     
  2. Jingojolene

    Jingojolene Wayfarer, heartlander

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Deep Space
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    The Union fought for the liberation of the slaves in America, how could you not choose to side with them? :|
     
  3. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0
    I think that regardless of the individual agenda in the Civil War, one thing we have to understand is that had the South won, the US now wouldn't be the US we've seen all the while. So is the North guilty of personal agenda? Well given my own cynical take on humanity, the answer would be yes. But are they worse than the South? I truly doubt so.
     
  4. RayCaptain

    RayCaptain 如朱

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,719
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +216 / 0 / -0
    The general assumption that the Civil War was fought to free slaves is completely wrong. The freeing of the slaves was done in punishment for the South's rebellion...
     
  5. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Toronto the Good
    Ratings:
    +58 / 0 / -0
    The issue of slavery in the American Civil War is a very complicated issue. The Union prosecuted the war primarily to maintain the Union, and unquestionably the Confederacy fought much more for states' rights than for anything else. But the issue over which states' rights was debated by force of arms was slavery.

    Without slavery the difference between North and South would not have been sufficient to cause a war. The incident that started the war was the election of Abraham Lincoln, because Lincoln had promised to stop the spread of slavery into any more western territories. Had he succeeded, the balance of power would have inevitably swung against slavery as western states were added to the US. The populations of the slave states understood that that would have led to the abolition of slavery within two or three generations and they therefore seceeded as they believed they had a right to do. The war itself was fought over secession not slavery, but the secession would never have occurred without the issue of slavery.

    Frankly, I agree with the Confederacy on every issue except for slavery, but that one moral issue trumps other issues. If I had been alive at the time, I would have been a radical abolitionist, and that leaves me no choice at all.

    I'd hold my breath and choose Union.
     
  6. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    The North allowed us to advance quite a lot in terms of technology over the past several decades.

    and had the south won i have a disturbing feeling that much of America's industrial capability and interest in the sciences would have decreased dramatically, pushing our nation far behind the rest of the world and possibly bringing about the defeat of the Allied Forces in WWII a century later.

    Which would have been very, very bad.

    And who knows, had the south won maybe the cultural boom would have happened in Canada instead of the US.
     
  7. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    The South was the financial powerhouse of USA and the North was "bleeding" financially because the South had no need for white workers,I don't think the slaves were so many in the entire South,but even with that small amount of slaves and and poor farmers there was no need for more working hands,so the North couldn't deal with it.

    Lincoln talked about freeing the slaves,but never talked about giving them equal rights.Washington wanted to control the financial matters of the States,the war started and then Lincoln evolved into a dictator doing whatever he wanted.

    I don't think the Southern slaves suffered as much as Hollywood shows us.Sure slavery was a bad thing and still is,but that doesn't mean that all Southern rich landowners treated them like animals.

    They were getting food,they had a place to sleep,didn't they?Or not?

    While in the North,they started to be considered as the cause of evil after a few years of war.
    Not to mention that in the North they didn't consider both black people and Indians as equal citizens...
     
  8. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    it is true that the slavery issue was an afterthought. but the industrial strength of the North still made it a worthy cause: the industrial cause.
     
  9. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    In a view from a morality standpoint, slavery even if it does save a farmer some money is still fairly a terrible inhumane thing to do to another human. And I don't understand how slavery isn't tied to the south's secession.

    Have all my history lessons been lies? And slavery being toned down doesn't really work. They would still be stuck in a dead end life living as property to a person that claims racial superiority and wants to save money on labor.

    Still taking to arms is a dumb idea, but separating yourself from the rest of your country to keep cheap slave labor?
     
  10. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    No,it was more than that.It was because the North wouldn't accept the fact that the South was making so much money and the exports were bringing so much money while the North was suffering from unemployment and....well generally a failure because Europe was already in a very succesful industrial era.Yes slavery is bad,but saying that the South was bad because of slavery is stupid because the North had been treating people like slaves too.And in the end,when did black people really become equal in USA?Probably after the Vietnam War.
     
  11. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    The north was still pushing for more legal steps. In the land of the free, freedom still comes slow. Gay people still can't marry in every state now. And slaves were a big part of the workforce in the south. They were part of the reason why the south profited so much. Even if it was just for ulterior motives, the north was still giving them rights in the book, even if they were not treated equal yet on the street.
     
  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Rights?What kind rights?

    The South was at least giving them food and a house.
     
  13. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Toronto the Good
    Ratings:
    +58 / 0 / -0
    Incarcerated felons are also given food and a house. But they can't be whipped or sold, and they aren't expected to work hundred-hour weeks.

    Foin, you're completely off your rocker.

    The South was not the economic powerhouse of the States during that time. The North's industrial base was already established and they were producing vast quantities of quality manufactured goods for domestic use and for export. The South's wealth was limited to a few cash crops (cotton, tobacco, sugar, hemp) largely in the hands of a relatively few large plantation owners. The North had an established middle class of small business owners, skilled craftsmen and farmers. The South had almost no middle class; apart from vastly wealthy plantation owners, the huge majority of Southerners were subsistence farmers or unpaid labourers. Work - such as carpentry - that would get a Northerner a house, family, horse, and a comfortable retirement, got a slave barely enough food to live on and living conditions no better than a third-world prison.

    Life expectancy of a slave was half that of a free man, White or Black, North or South, employed or not.

    Life expectancy of an ante-bellum slave was two-thirds that of a medieval serf.
     
  14. FARAWAYSAY

    FARAWAYSAY Farawaysay

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Another planet mostly!
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    'Everybody loves you when you're six foot in the ground.'
    John Lennon
     
  15. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    I know the North had an incredible industrial production,at least for the US.That was proved during the war when the North was making weapons and equipment like crazy.But the South with the cotton and all the other products was making a lot of good money.And the North was angry because the Southerners didn't need any white laborers,plus the southern States were just fine on their own while the North was suffering from unemployment.Am I right on this one or not?

    Then the South formed the CSA and the North was like "nooo nooo you can't give up on us blah blah" so they attacked.
     
  16. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Toronto the Good
    Ratings:
    +58 / 0 / -0
    You're wrong there, too.

    The South had its share of unemployment, largely caused by the use of unpaid labour instead of paid labour. The difference is that unemployed Southern Whites were American by birth and usually had families they could stay with. But that led to large families on small farms in poor farmland. They might not all show up on demographic tables as unemployed, but they were.

    Unemployment was higher in the North, but that was largely a problem of immigrants landing in New York and not leaving. Had those same immigrants moved to Philedelphia or Chicago or New Haven or Peoria they would more easily have found work.

    The eventual solution to unemployment, North and South, was migration to what later became Nevada and Utah, South Dakota and Montana.
     
  17. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    You ain't comin'to Dixie land Greybeard!I'll defend my cotton farm with musket and...umm...revolver...thing.

    Until the civil war is over and we all move to Texas to find gold....

    (Playing Call of Juarez too much)
     
  18. RayCaptain

    RayCaptain 如朱

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,719
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +216 / 0 / -0
    Well... The victor gets to write history... <_< That's really all there is to it.
     
  19. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    15,018
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    In the hearts and minds of us all
    Ratings:
    +306 / 0 / -0
    lol and what is your side of the story? that slavery wasn't a major issue leading up to the civil war? because it was
     
  20. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus Constantly Around :D

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,561
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    Ratings:
    +248 / 1 / -0
    one of many..