America and Guns

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Crouton, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. jake1964

    jake1964 Old enough to be your dad

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    I don't think it has anything to do with movies or video games. But I also don't blame the guns.

    In the mid 1960's laws were passed, with good intentions, that prevented mentally ill people from being institutionalized unless they had demonstrated that they were a danger to themselves or others.
    I'm not suggesting that everyone who has problems should be locked up. But what happened is that we went from doing exactly that to doing almost nothing.

    I honestly believe that the fame, or I guess a better word is infamy, that is garnered by the perpetrators due to the constant barrage from the media after one of these tragedies has actually encouraged some unbalanced individuals to seek their own "15 minutes of fame".

    I would also like to address the comments concerning healthcare in the US.

    In spite of the way it is portrayed in the media, thousands of people are not dying in the streets of America because they can't afford a doctor.

    Mental health care however, is an entirely different animal. That is not something that is easily gotten without lots of money or damned good insurance. (Which also takes lots of money)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  2. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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  3. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    Ah yes, the great old melting pot, singlehandedly responsible for the doubling to tripling of American crime, influence of illiteracy, stupidity, ignorance, criminal culture... etc.
     
  4. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    Not sure what you are referring to here.
     
  5. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay, I know that this is totally inappropriate, but I like to laugh sometimes to make me feel better about things... so here goes. This was on reddit under the title of "The American Version of Harry Potter"

    [​IMG]

    :3 please don't hurt me.
     
  6. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    Haha, that's brilliant. But it would take more than a mere bullet to bring down Voldemort.
     
  7. Taliesyn

    Taliesyn It's a feral reality out there, kids.

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    Harry Hard With A Vengeance. Coming soon to cinemas.
     
  8. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    Fist Full of Galleons, A Few More Galleons, and The Good, The Bad, and Peter Pettigrew will take your breath your breath away. Be sure you own the The Wizard With No Parents trilogy on BluRay this fall.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  9. Taliesyn

    Taliesyn It's a feral reality out there, kids.

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    Damn rep spread. I so wanted to rep that, Olivia! :D
     
  10. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    It's okay, you saying it is enough rep for me :)
     
  11. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    Being painfully blunt...Remember that chart on page 1?


    African-American homicide rate per 100,000: 41.4

    Before the ignorant cries of racism: if you don't know what its like to have to live in an area dominated by them, keep your damn mouth shut.

    (figure courtesy of us government)
     
  12. olivia_the_lamb

    olivia_the_lamb Moderator Staff Member

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    I actually do know... I lived in Chicago. I walked through the ghetto in a skirt and didn't give a shite. They treated me with respect because I treated them with respect.
     
  13. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I wasn't going to cry racism. I know that in some areas certain ethnic groups are much more violent than others. It's different everywhere. Some places are worse than others.
     
  14. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Racism only keeps the status-quo in place. The rest might very well be cause and effect ;)
     
  15. joanna

    joanna Joanna

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    not able to see the pic, crouton :(


    When a very tragic moment appearts, like extreme violence, you hear a lot of conservative crap because through the media itself and some (or many) politicians. I don't really think there is a very big difference between America and the rest of the world when it comes to blaming video games, movies, bands, tv,... Anders Breivik was also a 'gamer' according to the media. Bands like Rammstein and Marlyn Manson where blamed for actions they did not commit themselves, but just because people want a scapegoat.

    I agree guns are a crucial factor for violence and i just hope america will change it's opinion about it. But america is a big country, with a lot of states and a lot of different opinions...
     
  16. Dreamscape

    Dreamscape The Cricket

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    Nothing quite as frustrating as video games and movies being blamed for gun violence. :s
     
  17. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    Curing the gun culture will be infinitely more effective than banning assault rifles, which should be heavily restricted (review process, demonstrated good behavior with lesser firearms) though not outright banned.
     
  18. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Funny thing,today I was thinking about the whole Second Amendment thing.Actually we would benefit from a law allowing people having guns here probably because criminals and robbers use Kalashnikovs and big weapons the last few years.But then again I am also thinking that if people got guns here,followers of various political parties would cause trouble and the country would fall in civil war.
     
  19. Wanted Hero

    Wanted Hero YA Fantasy Author

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    Best post yet, I feel. Personally think it all comes down to definitions, accountability and communication.

    I'm a husband, father of 11 exceptionally intelligent children (ALL of them homeschooled BTW, by my wife, who is a school teacher). I am a gun-owner, born and grew up in Oakland, CA with a very violent background. My rough life growing up motivated me to build something better for my family. I have a personal gripe about parents not taking responsibility for their children just as much as I do about stupid arguments like blaming gun violence on video games.

    Do I think video games have an influence ON violence? Sure. I think you'd be a moron if you think it didn't--you get out what you put in, but to blame gun violence on it? What...as the determining factor? Pshht. Not by a long shot.

    I don't use statistics. Unless they are in a controlled group that encompasses all the participants, it's just a highly formulated guess. I realize I'm the exception, not the rule in this discussion, but I'm an American. I love my country. My ancestors died to provide me with the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They also secured the right for me to defend those rights...at the end of a gun IF NEED BE, by people trying to illegally take that away from me.

    You don't have to agree. You don't have to like it. They didn't do it for you, who live in another country...they did it for me and my children. What seems to be missed, is this is non-negotiable. It doesn't matter if everyone in this country went nuts and shot each other. I reserve that right and will defend myself. This is not about hurting one another--this is about my personal defense and the ability to protect my family. Now all you have is my own word for this--but I've had to exercise that right to protect my wife and to protect my daughters (I have 8), from scum-sucking dirt bags, who have no respect for women.

    All these statistics mean very little to me, because this is about definition. What are you trying to get people to believe? What's your agenda in spreading this about? If you put a little effort into this--you can put any spin on this conversation you like and make it sound credible. So let me put in my two pennies.

    Video games affect a lot of things:
    • Violence
    • Weight gain
    • Laughter
    • Creativity
    • Eye-hand coordination
    • Communication benefits AND disabilities

    ...so there are good and bad, just like anything else you do in life. Use judgement, don't get obsessed, go outside once in a while and grow your life. There's a time for games too.

    If you are violent towards anyone--regardless of the reason, you are responsible and accountable. Don't blame it on someone else or something else. There will be consequences.
    That being said, don't come knocking on my door because of what someone else does. That's not my problem, nor my fault or decision. You may not take away my gun because my neighbor shot someone. You may not take away my ice cream because someone else got fat and died of a heart attack. Don't be stupid. Put the monkey where the monkey belongs.

    Next, the great thing about liberty is the RIGHT TO FAIL! Oh, I know there are many people that get nervous about this and scream for unified this and that and think they have rights to this and that...but in America, it's simple. You have a right to 3 things:
    • Life
    • Liberty
    • The Pursuit of Happiness


    THAT'S IT! So long as these things to not infringe upon another human being, go for it. You don't get health care. You don't get a job. You don't get welfare. You get the right to build your own life...supposedly without being hindered (whole rant on that one). So stop blaming anyone else for your life, your circumstances or your shortcomings, get off your butt and build a life. Now, for those outside the US saying we should provide this and that to others:

    I cannot see a shred of sense in taking from one person to give to another. People should enjoy the fruits of their own labors and spend them as they see fit. It is not the proper role of government to take care of anyone. It breeds weakness and slothfulness...for goodness sake, the government doesn't MAKE a damn thing. Never does. It steals form one and gives to another. Where I may different from others, is I believe in the love of the human spirit. It is my duty, before my Maker and as an intelligent member of my own society, to look after the welfare of those around me who CANNOT provide for themselves. I don't have to, nor will I, do a damn thing for those who WILL NOT provide for themselves.

    ...and desperation is a wonderful motivator for survival and developing good characteristics when, as Running Wolf wisely put it--parents teach their children.

    Next--accountability for our young.
    I love my family. In fact, I love youth ANYwhere. Amazing minds, incredible potential and views---but most adults and society screw them up! Why are we so afraid of them asking questions? For crying out loud--that's how we learn! Again, I agree with Running Wolf, in that "because I say so" is not the right answer--but be careful, it's still a valid one in some instances.

    I'm the parent. I'm responsible for my children and the law HOLDS me responsible (financially), which means what I say does matter--even if they don't like it. I do not have to justify myself at every turn to my children. They should be obedient to my requests, so long as I don't violate them or their freedoms in turn. Those freedoms grow over time and they are imparted to them as they learn judgement and earn trust.

    ...or so the myth goes.

    Now, the shame is, anyone can procreate...but not everyone has the skill-sets to BE a parent. Herein lies a serious problem. There are two sides to this coin, Running Wolf--and that is, if I say "clean your room" to my child, they should listen. They should obey. I provide and I have many reasons why they should do it--but I don't have to explain that to them to validate my request. However...if I'm a wise parent (I like to fool myself into thinking I am), I will want to not only empower my child (giving them the WHY), but I will want to endear and build that trust between us--by explaining my views, so they can see my logic, thinking patterns and just reasoning for making such a request.

    CHILDREN ARE BRILLIANT---STOP TREATING THEM LIKE FOOLS! Sorry, just annoys me. Youth are underestimated at every turn and it ticks me off. Just TALK to them for crying out loud.

    The USA fails culturally, because they have created the illusion that youth have "rights" when they do not--then they penalize parents for being parents. Morons.

    You want to know why other countries do better in so many ways? Watch the family unit. They still teach honor, respecting their elders. Eastern countries have stronger family values, whereas Americans are "me-me-me" orientated. Our very culture screams and indoctrinates this into our kids. Movies, Saturday commercials, technology and encouraging youth to pull away from their mother and father at too young an age, without the right foundation of knowledge.

    I watched my neighbors for years. Incredible Mexican family. Beautiful, kind people. They bought a small house on the corner. Other neighbors were jerks to them, because as the kids grew up and got married, the first 3 boys stayed with their parents. But guess what? Within 5 years, their house was paid for. It was expanded by 40%. They bought 2 boats, 2 RV's, motorcycles for all the kids and grandkids and then built another home for the oldest son--and had THAT paid for.

    How did they do it? Together. They weren't perfect, but they taught their children the value of family, working hard and focusing together. Over the following 15 years, everyone one of their children grew up, bought a house within 2 miles and paid their homes off. When we moved south, I went next door, shook the fathers hand and told him how much I admired him. Brilliant man. Good man. Great father.

    My family is doing the same thing. We are working together to live and build on what we have. We work together, play together and have become the "lighthouse" of the community--meaning youth are always in our home. many ask to talk with me when their own fathers won't. I try to teach my kids by example, by precept and let them know that though I'm "dad"...and I am that before anything else, I'm only a hop, skip and a jump further down the road than they are! Cut me some slack. At the same time, I have experience they can take advantage of. Use it--AND DON'T GO WHERE I CAN'T FOLLOW!

    All actions have natural consequences. If you break laws, you will pay.

    ...as you should when using a gun.

    I know I'm ranting now--but no conversation is clean cut. Even our views here are skewed by our intentions, experiences and perspectives. I'll live my life my way and support you and protect you in your right to live yours as well. THAT is what should make America great...but honestly, it's what makes people great, not the country--which doesn't exclude any of you here.

    Thanks for letting a crazy old man jump in at the end of the conversation :yakonyou
     
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  20. Lajvarporr

    Lajvarporr New Member

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    Legalize the weed and throw the guns to hell!!!