Action against Libya right or wrong?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Foinikas, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. Confessor

    Confessor New Member

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    My honest humble opinion. The U.S.A. needs to worry about itself for a change! Stop worrying about the worlds problems and focus on ourselves. We aren't mean to be hall monitors of the world but we always get stuck with that task. We need to shut all borders to everyone entering, especially Illegals from Mexico. I think this leader of Lybia needs to be thrown out, he sounds like a looney; if the people of this nation are asking this guy to step down then he should. If they think he way to do things is wrong then they are right. Isn't a person supposed to be allowed some form of speech? Even if you aren't in the U.S.A., clearly if a country thinks the way you run things is for the dogs then do whats best for your people and get out of the office. Just my 2 cents.
     
  2. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    I'm totally out of this. I don't get it anymore.
    I totally agreed with the stuff they said in the media the UN would do - but I disagree with the stuff they're actually doing right now.
    Either I watch the wrong newschannel, or I really am not as smart as I would like, or the media-guys got something wrong, or the UN lied.
    Whatever it is, I'm confused. This is not going as I planned it. Everyone back, turn the clocks back, you guys don't have my approval *shakes fist* :/
     
  3. WildPony

    WildPony New Member

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    Yeah what the hell! I thought the Coalition forces were there to prevent Gaddafi from using his weapons... now there's bombings at night, and buildings being missiled... I don't get it! Since when is war by international forces meant to stop internal war? The only reason Gaddafi's escaped international criticism for so long is because he's been signing peace treaties and trade stuff with America and others. Obviously lying through his teeth. That's why it took them so long to react, because they believed his crap about a cease fire. But, it's true, what does Lybia have that the West need, oil and stability due to its strategic position. Who cares about the Ivory Coast, who cares that old Robert continues to kill off his opposition in Zimbabwe. And what do most countries do "oh we'll freeze Gaddafi's assets, we'll set sanctions". How exactly is that supposed to work! He probably has a million different places for his money... probably a lovely big Swiss account and a secret stash under his bed. Guess what my country is doing? Nothing, "we will make sure that none of the money he is earning through his assets will reach him" and "we strongly condemn what Gaddafi is doing". It's because it's been left so long, the country's a total mess now! Damn I'm so fedup!
     
  4. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Quote from BBC's live Libya updates:

    Is the coalition doing a bit of arms embargo, gun-running on the side? :eek: Would anyone be surprised?

    Save the innocent citizens = arm them for a bloody civil war = regime change.

    Above issue aside, where is the diplomatic efforts to run alongside the 'big stick' to get the two sides together? Offer the nutter a way out ~ one criminal's immunity is an acceptable cost to save 100s if not 1000s of lives.

    Apparently it's already costing British taxpayers £2m* a day ~ modest yes but if it drags on for years thats £730m pa which is money that could be far better spent in the UK dealing with our own problems.

    *Excluding ordnance expended ~ Tomahawk missiles at a £1m each, £'000s for every aircraft missile / bombs....
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  5. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    I sincerely hope the West gets a good ass whooping, their political and economic manipulation of others is getting out of hand. Though the only way to stop them is by their own people. Something I don't see coming very soon.
    As for the rebels, if they aren't unified and determined enough, then they do not deserve freedom. No country should involve itself in affairs of another country. Yes, people are dying. But people allowed Gadaffi to get to power in the first place.
     
  6. WildPony

    WildPony New Member

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    Gaddafi took over through a military coup and has maintained a strict militant government ever since. So, the people don't have much choice in the matter. He's used bribes, threats, murder and all manner of dodgy things to remain in power. The successful overthrowing of Tunisia's Dictator and Egypt's led to the Lybians thinking they could achieve the same. Unfortunately, Gaddafi is not a peaceful man like the other two dictators... he's been stockpiling weapons for years and has no scruples in committing mass murder to stay in power. I also think he's somewhat deranged, which doesn't help matters.
     
  7. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    First of all,Americans should get the f*ck out of there.I can't stand that bitch Clinton come out and talk all the time telling people what to do.She disgusts me just like that other bitch Condoleeza Rice did.I don't know if most Americans even know where Libya is.This is a mostly Mediterennean,European,Arab matter.The U.S. and Russia should move out.Yes,yes I know this is not something that will happen because...there's lots of oil in Libya or even if there's little oil,that doesn't matter,it's still oil and it's still a geopolitical matter as to who wins the war and if the country gets divided.

    Now...Gaddafi won't stop unless his army is smashed.That's the bad thing.And that needs bombing and the West usually bombs normal people among with army bases.The so-called "mistakes".
     
  8. Ser Land

    Ser Land New Member

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    There's no "should" on international relations. Countries only think in matters of gain and loss. And there's enough of both in this case.
     
  9. Jinral

    Jinral The yet to be published

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    Here's the deal, Coalition forces intervened because there was a tyrant killing civilians. Enough said, are there methods the best? No, but saying they shouldn't have started in the first place is just wrong.

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke

    Of the coalition forces, America is taking the most heat (when its actually the french who lead the charge so to speak), and yes they do have a severe number of internal issues, the country is war weary from the past decade, but because they are having their own problems, does it mean they should ignore a leader slaughtering his own people? My answer is no. Yes their methods could be better and the last thing America needs is another war, but they will not sacrifice innocent civilians in favor of the personel comfort.
     
  10. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Asking from NATO to help you is like asking from a drunk bouncer to help you in a fight:You'll get hit too in the process.

    Seriously NATO bombs whatever they find.Bosnia,Kosovo,Afghanistan....now Libya.They just bomb and kill and then go like "sorry we didn't know it was you guys" or "sorry we thought it was an army camp but it turned out to be a hospital".
     
  11. Jinral

    Jinral The yet to be published

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    Yes recently Ghadaffi has been blaiming recent bombings of the people on NATO, but he also claims that every member of the country loves him and would die for him, the same country men who are currently trying to overthrow him...the man's a nut case. Im not saying NATO is perfect, but even the collateral damages that are actually their fault and not Ghaddaffi's propoganda, the damages have been are so small in the scale of things. It sounds almost evil to say, but despite NATO's screw ups that kills many people, if NATO was not there, there would be exponentially more civilian deaths than if they weren't. And then at the end of the day when the government exacted enough revenge, Ghaddaffi would go back to running his backwards regime oppressing his people. Nothing is perfect, but there doing the best they can.
     
  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    What makes me angry is that,at least in my country,they stopped talking about the war on the news.I mean...what the heck man,I have to read stuff on the net to see any updates if there are any notable updates in the war apart from some NATO bombings and Gaddafi's bragging.

    All they kept saying on TV was that the battle for Misrata kept going on and that was days ago.And who is winning in Misrata anyway,how long can the rebels defend the city?
     
  13. Jinral

    Jinral The yet to be published

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    Unfortunantly my country is the same with the news, if its not about brad and angelina next adopted kid, or lindsay lohans going to jail, they dont put it on the news. BBC is where I get my info, as for misrata, im afraid im not up to date on that situation
     
  14. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    Same here. Libya is not in the news anymore, was all about DSK the last week and our politicians. Here's some news:

    "NATO warplanes have hammered Tripoli with some of the heaviest airstrikes yet, as US president Barack Obama and British prime minister David Cameron said Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi would "inevitably" be forced from power.

    At least 12 huge explosions rocked the capital in the early hours on Tuesday. Government spokesman Mussa Ibrahim said three people were killed and 150 wounded."

    "Rebels trying to overthrow Gaddafi's 41-year rule control the east of the oil-producing country, but the conflict has been deadlocked for weeks.

    In an escalation that could help break the stalemate, French officials said on Monday that France and Britain would deploy attack helicopters, a step aimed at targeting Gaddafi's forces more precisely."

    "The latest moves by Western allies against Libya have shown marked similarities to "strategies" they adopted in Kosovo in the 1990s"

    "In the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, Libya the whispers and rumors about rape being used as a tool of war by Moammar Gadhafi's troops are coming from all corners of society, from rebel fighters to doctors and citizens, who have come in contact with families displaced by the conflict. "

    "U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Monday urged more NATO nations to take an operational role in the air campaign in Libya, and defended her own country's contribution to the mission."
     
  15. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    Well in Greek Tv you only hear news about our economy and nothing about Libya! Although bombarding carries on in Tripoli. I think that governments forbide to TV channels for a while to spreading news about this. Something wicked this way comes! something important... maybe a new announcement of Obama, time will tell!
     
  16. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Yeah in Greek TV it's mostly about economy and stuff we don't understand.They put like 4-5 people on the TV "windows" to discuss and then just say a couple of things about what's going on in the rest of the world fast and stop.

    And the thing is that Benghazi is directly south of Greece,it is literally on the "southern borders" let's say.
     
  17. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    Indeed... All those year i live i see many Greeks neighbors to be bombed by USA and allies. Serbia now Libya who is next? We are living in mad times... As for Papakonstandinou greek minister of economy all i want to say is just ..... himself. He is a joke.
     
  18. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Our politicians are like cartoons,they don't look like bad guys from movies or something like in other countries,they look like morons who keep doing their thing.

    Libya,Libya...now Syria...Libya was a place where many people from many countries worked at and Syria was a very big tourist destination at least for people from Greece or Turkey.Now you can't go to either of them.And maybe not in Egypt.
     
  19. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    World is burning and i m really afraid of our generation.... We will face soon a war... Look at Spain. people rioting, Italy is near collapse, Greece is dead already , Ireland too , Portugal is almost dead and Germany wants to become the new dynasty of Europe. EU failed in many ways. Belgium is the head and is not even a nation with a common language. Common language and common religion are the weapon to help a nation to survive the time and oblivion. And now what i see is that all fugitives from Iraq, Afghanistan , Pakistan , Libya and many more come to Greece in order to pass to Europe. Europe close the borders and Greece faces alone so many fugitives. When i was in the army i saw something terrible. I saw our commanders to tell us to let the fugitives to pass the borders cause the where paid from Turks. Europe do nothing than counting money. Germany do nothing about real problems. Cause the borders of greece is Europes borders. Anyway i m really pissed of with many. And i pray to light that America will not bomb another country cause if they do that = more fugitives to Greece and we don't want it. We can't afford. American friends here told us that they don't want more Mexican fugitives why we Greeks who are a small country want more??? LEAVE PEOPLE BE IN THEIR COUNTRIES DONT BOMB THEM.PEACE FOR GOD SHAKE
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  20. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    It's true,we can't have all these immigrants in our country.Afghanis,Pakistanis,Albanians,Russo-caucasians...even Africans!