A Question Sauron's influence in "The Hobbit" and "Lord of the Rings"

Discussion in 'Books' started by Silvermune, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. Silvermune

    Silvermune New Member

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    So being new here, and a big fan of 'The Hobbit' and the "Lord of the Rings" I've got a question, now first I will say is that it has been awhile since I've read lotr and the movies might have had a slight influence on how this sparked up in my head.

    So from what I understand, Sauron's 'spirit' resides in Mordor correct? and wants the ring of power so he can regain a physical form? Please correct me if I am wrong. Now I'm rereading the hobbit right now, and I've just gotten to the part where Gandalf parts from the Dwarves outside of Mirkwood. When Bilbo asks him why they don't go around the forest if it's so dangerous Gandalf explains that it would be much longer a journey if they tried to travel around and to the south of mirkwood the 'necromancer' would prove to be far more dangerous than just to cross through the forest.
    I haven't read Tokien's other books or his sons but from what I understand the Necromancer is sauron when he was trying to disguise himself and gandalf discovered him when he went and rescued Thorin's Father. or Grandfather. or something along those lines?

    This might have gone completely over my head but I'm just a tad confused yet. When sauron was known as the 'necromancer' i assumed he was a physical being with great power which resided there. But it takes place so close to the lord of the rings.
    so anybody have any answers? Sorry if I sorta rambled.
     
  2. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I can't recall the part exactly, but Sauron didn't just appear in Mordor; he spent a lot of years floating as a weak spirit. Unable to affect or do much after the ring was cut from him. Mirkwood is where he makes his first reappearance and starts to build himself a base of power, which I think does suggest strongly that he is the "necromancer". It being only later when he has enough power to move and restore himself to Mordor and his seat of power.

    Even then Sauron shouldn't be thought of as a single creature or burning eye - is is much more a guiding spirit without a body
     
  3. Forgotten Realms

    Forgotten Realms Human Version of Drizzt

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    I can only second this. When I have read and meanwhile re-read the books, I came to the conclusion that Sauron is quite sure the "Necromancer" trying to grow his power again anonymous in Mirkwood where nobody knew him.

    Well, I see Sauron also as a spirit and also referred the burning eye of the movie to the "third eye" of meditation or astral travel.
     
  4. Silvermune

    Silvermune New Member

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    Okay I see that would make sense. I guess I always assumed him to be in Mordor throughout even the hobbit since the time frame isn't too long in between.
    Thank you both for your input, appreciate the response.
     
  5. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    There are quite a few years between the Hobbit and LotR - remember Bilbo is 111 in LotR so its a good chunk of years (I forget how old he was in the Hobbit, but certainly not too old).
     
  6. Silvermune

    Silvermune New Member

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    He's around 50 or so. So its only about 61 years later. Guess that's a reasonable amount of time for all things to transpire.
     
  7. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    Sauron basically fled to Mirkwood when he was destroyed by the men and elves, but it took a long time to find him. Gandalf and the White Council had known he was there for a little while.

    Sauron had been a spirit since the fall of Númenor I believe, as that was his last material shape he could take (being a Maya). So he therefore had to imbue his spirit in something to do stuff after that (armour, a ring, dead, ...).

    When he was the necromancer, he was building up his power, and the White Council basically kicked him out of Dol Guldur (his fortress in Mirkwood), and he then fled to Mordor, which had been deserted long ago (and still had orcs roaming about).
     
  8. Vishwanath

    Vishwanath New Member

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    Sauron after the fall of numenor was stuck in a single form but after the ring was cut from his hand he lost even that form and for the first few centuries of the third age he roamed around middle earth but he eventually garnered enough power to form some sort of body by the time he came barad dur cause gollum says that one of his black hands has only four fingers which he sees when he is being tortured to reveal the rings location as for his influence on the third age it was mainly psychological fear and control over the wraith's made him a force to be reckoned with.
     
  9. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    Sauron had been stuck in one form since the fall of Númenor. And when the Ring was cut from his hand that was a form that he had built for himself, that was held together by the power of the Ring. He therefore needed the Ring to take shape once more.
     
  10. FirePhoenix

    FirePhoenix Member

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    Gandalf found out over 100 years before Bilbo was born, that the Necromancer was Sauron. Why didn't they do anything earlier?
     
  11. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    ^^Really? I didn't know that.
    If I had to guess, it might have been because they might have thought him harmless enough at that point not to worry about him. I wonder if by the time the White Council ousted him out of Dol Guldur, they might have had enough of him wrecking the Greenwood forest or figured he had regained enough power to become a threat again. If I remember correctly the Greenwood came to be called Mirkwood because of Sauron's influence on it. Unlike Galadriel, Thranduil (the Elvenking) didn't have a ring of power to keep Sauron's evil out of his realm. All he had was a magical river border and his elves had to wage war on the shadow constantly to keep it at bay.