A Balrog's Death

Discussion in 'Books' started by Radagast, Oct 16, 2003.

  1. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    Yup. Any of the editting that CT did to JRRT's drafts were minor grammer issues. He did not in any way change what JRRT intended to happen.
     
  2. Auedawen

    Auedawen New Member

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    Yes, the Lost Tales where a compilation of a bunch of notes and such that JRR put together over all the years he was creating/thinking about his little world. In the Lost Tales, least the version I read, Christopher had numerous notes in which he added his input about what his father probably meant to say but didn't have the time to finish. One of these notes was about the number of Balrogs to ever exist. In the Lost Tales there are hoards of them. Christopher, however, believes his father changed his mind later on (perhaps he found some text or notes to indicate this) and decided there was only a max of 7 Balrogs to ever exist. As to when they actually died you cannot be sure as only 3 Balrog deaths are ever actually confirmed (Glorfindel's, Gothmog, and Durin's Bane). I, personally, believe JRR intended the Balrogs to be his demon captains, the leaders of his war on the Elves, not shock troops.
     
  3. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    true, except for the fact that CT had Gil-Galad as the son of Fingon, while in JRR's planning, Gil-Galad was the son of Orodreth of Nargothrond who was, in his turn, the son of Angrod, son of Finarfin.
     
  4. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

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    But for the rest I don't think CT changed much of the story.
     
  5. Auedawen

    Auedawen New Member

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    Ahh, he didn't change the story, as I said in my post, I do believe he found some of JRR's notes indicating the "true" number of Balrogs. I either dreamt this (for what reason I can't even comprehend) or others just happened to pass over the note stating the seven balrog deal. I suppose i can go rent another copy outa the library and get a quote for everyone.
     
  6. The Archangel

    The Archangel Member

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    i foget who wrote about this but i dunno if the balrogs got any less powerful in the service of Morgroth, as Sauron still retained his craftsmanship skills and powers, else he could not have forged the Ring, nor almost put middle-earth under his sway. Maybe some of the lesser balrogs were less powerful than the others whilst in the service of the valar, for there were many of them, and nowhere does it say that they are all-powerful.
    back on topic, when gandalf destroys the one from moria no doubt it follows its master into the void, for he has within him the spirit of a maia, and a powerful one at that, and he would have the power to destroy its physical vessel, and maybe its spirit as well.
     
  7. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I think most of the Maia had the ability to decide what form they would assume while on the earth. I do question though, would all of the corrupted Maia go into the void, assuming that is their fate? Were all willingly in the service of Morgoth?

    BTW, isn't that Tyreal in your sig?
     
  8. The Archangel

    The Archangel Member

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    hmm, dunno, i think i read somewhere that he bribed or forced some to serve him, not those words but i dunno where i read it. so if they wernt, perhaps the valar would withhold judgement or something.
    yes, it is tyreal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2004
  9. Auedawen

    Auedawen New Member

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    Ahh, finally got The Book of Lost Tales: Part II from the library. Okay, found the quote i was looking for. "The idea that Morgoth disposed of a 'host' of Balrogs endured long, but in a late note my father said that only a few ever existed - 'at most seven'." So yea...only at the most 7 balrogs...
     
  10. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    that makes more sense, since they were Maia.
     
  11. MaximusAralias

    MaximusAralias New Member

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    Men and elves went to the halls of mandos after death...unless they were unalowd (feanor never returned to the halls of mandos) perhaps those who cannot return to the halls of mandos do go into a "spiritual form" without the ablility to ever retake physical form...

    there are no balrogs alive after the war of the ring....by the way :p

    In the battle of gondolin 8 balrogs were slain....ya...8

    Ecthelion vs Gothmog
    Glorfindel vs balrog
    Gnomes of the House of the Hammer of Wrath vs Balrog
    Tuor vs ...5 BALROGS!!!
    Gandalf vs Durins bane

    ^ thats all 9 balrogs folks :p