A Balrog's Death

Discussion in 'Books' started by Radagast, Oct 16, 2003.

  1. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada.
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    What happens when a Balrog is slayen?

    Balrogs were Maia, and Maia were immortal. So by technicality would not a Balrog return to Aman such as other Maia did. Or would it be more likely for a Balrog to follow the same path as Morgoth and Sauron, and be bound in the void?

    Just a question I thought up and couldn't think of an answer for.
     
  2. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    BFE
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    hard to say. Sauron was defeated a couple of times prior to the war of the ring. In those instances he simply lingered around in "spirit form" until he was strong enough to take physical form. maybe that is what the Balrogs do
     
  3. Nienor

    Nienor Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    9,608
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Northern Joisey
    Ratings:
    +91 / 0 / -0
    I would think that Balrogs having turned evil, would be bound in the void. Sauron was never truly slain until the ring was destroyed. That's why he still lingered around Middle Earth.
     
  4. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    8,237
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Ratings:
    +63 / 0 / -0
    I agree. They were probably cast into the void.

    Good question though. It's something I'll have to chew on for a while...
     
  5. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    BFE
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    hmm, anyone have a quote to back this up? I don't recall reading it anywhere.
     
  6. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada.
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    I don't recall either. I actually don't think Tolkien ever stated what happened to them, unless in his Letters (which I have not read.)

    This question is frustrating me way to much lol.
     
  7. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    BFE
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    ya you get kinda involved in these things huh?
     
  8. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada.
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    Irritates me, thats all;)
     
  9. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Messages:
    6,311
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    I think when a balrog is slain it is sent to the type of place Gandalf was, then cast into the outer nothing because it was evil. It is a good question though.
     
  10. Glorfy_of_Imladris

    Glorfy_of_Imladris Mysterious Glorfy

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Well Saruman was a Maia too, and he was killed. I suppose the Valar, or Eru at least, can make a shift of the deads... The really bad ones like Sauron and Balrogs may be destroyed, and maybe not-so-bad-ones like Saruman may receive grace... Dunno really :p
     
  11. Scrinlord

    Scrinlord Dark Lord of Guppies

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    If I remember right from the letters, miar such as Balrogs are stuck in their physical forms, while others, such as the Istari like Gandalf, are not firmly bound to the physical plane, so when Gandalf died, he was sent to (wherever, dont remember name) until he was sent back to middle earth. But I think a Balrog would have suffered the same kind of a death that something like a human would suffer, and just die and pass into the void, or whatever.
     
  12. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Yes, wasn't that their ''punishment'' for turning evil ?
     
  13. Scrinlord

    Scrinlord Dark Lord of Guppies

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I want to say it had something to do not so much with being "evil" as with misusing their powers. Like Gandalf rarly used his "supernatural"(for lack of a better term) powers, and he only did when he absolutly HAD to to save people, or in similer situations. On the other hand, Sauron and the Balrogs and even Sauroman misused their powers, and used them for all the wrong reasons, which is part of the reason that they were never reincarnated.
     
  14. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I think there are many ways to misuse powers, sometimes it's even possible to misuse them in a good way. I think they misused their powers when they turned evil ( I am compromising here ;) ) for that was not how they were created.
     
  15. Shinagani

    Shinagani New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Hmmm... I thought Balrogs just died.. I never recall them being Maia, aren't they twisted concotions of Morgoth? If they are Maia then Morgoth had more Maia then all the other Valar combined, cuz there was a butt load of those guys at Gondolin, and they sure do die easily for supernatural beings.....
     
  16. Scrinlord

    Scrinlord Dark Lord of Guppies

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Yes, they were maia, but they were corrupted by morgoth, and so they were not as powerful as they could have been if they would have been in their "true" form.
     
  17. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    well, they lost almost all their godlike being (and powers) when they turned against the other Valar and became beings they were not meant to be. In the end the Balrogs were only very strong monsters, but weren't the gods who they originally were anymore.
     
  18. Glorfy_of_Imladris

    Glorfy_of_Imladris Mysterious Glorfy

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    They are Maiar. And there might have been a bunch of Balrogs at Gondolin, but there were legions of them in the Undying Lands. They die easely, yes. Just like Saruman died, like Gandalf could die, like Sauron died,...
     
  19. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I am always wondering: did the Balrogs still have their godlike status and powers when they became what they are?

    Melkor didn't.
     
  20. Glorfy_of_Imladris

    Glorfy_of_Imladris Mysterious Glorfy

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I suppose not. I think his minors had the same punish as the Big Boss himself :p