Did Dragons Really Exist?

[olivia_the_lamb]

I think dragons did live.. I mean, dinosaurs did so why not dragons? this may sound stupid, but i think middle earth even exsisted once

[Fincayra]

im not really sure if dragons existed. should there have been some evidence? i think unicorns existed, though

[eeyore]

Dragons still exist. I find it hard to believe that hundreds of thousands of years of magic and mystical beliefs just suddenly was proved wrong. There are things we choose not to believe. Dragons have always been here. Dragons will always be here even after we are gone.

Evidence? Sure I could show you evidence of alot of things. But unless you choose to believe it then in the end nothing matters that I show you. And if you choose to believe, really believe, then the proof will smack you in the face.

[Crusader]

Theres no evidence for a reason.

The only kind of evidence you could get would be fossild and bones. Well the reason dragons are in modern myths shows they survived to medieval times or earlier, and the environmental circumstances today arent right for fossils. you need a tar-pit or a desert etc. today the carcas would be torn apart by scavengers, the bones dispersed by geological changes and weather etc. so no fossils, no bodies. And as dragons are probably surviving dinosaurs, any that died back then and made fossils would go into the dinosaur category. and its hard to tell from bones whether it had fire breathing glands etc.

so no evidence, YET!!!!!!!!

[olivia_the_lamb]

very good point Crusader! I think believing is believing, and seeing is NOT believing. Peoples beliefs are what make people different though. So i guess you cant try and make someone believe there are/were dragons if they are just too stubborn

I think Tolkien may have known more than he knew that he knew *hmm*... maybe there really is/was a middle earth with hobbitses and elfs and dwarves... like it was said, maybe the hobbits just faded away along with the dwarves, and the elves just went to the undying lands! So it is the dominion of the elves.. hmm, all of this really is a lot to think about! When you think about it

[M. Douglas Larsen]

"I think Tolkien may have known more than he knew that he knew *hmm*... maybe there really is/was a middle earth with hobbitses and elfs and dwarves... "

You may be right about that: Here's a quote from "On Fairy Stories" by JRR:

Now “Faërian Drama”—those plays which according to abundant records the elves have often presented to men—can produce Fantasy with a realism and immediacy beyond the compass of any human mechanism. As a result their usual effect (upon a man) is to go beyond Secondary Belief. If you are present at a Faërian drama you yourself are, or think that you are, bodily inside its Secondary World. The experience may be very similar to Dreaming and has (it would seem) sometimes (by men) been confounded with it. But in Faërian drama you are in a dream that some other mind is weaving, and the knowledge of that alarming fact may slip from your grasp. To experience directly a Secondary World: the potion is too strong, and you give to it Primary Belief, however marvellous the events. You are deluded—whether that is the intention of the elves (always or at any time) is another question. They at any rate are not themselves deluded. This is for them a form of Art, and distinct from Wizardry or Magic, properly so called. They do not live in it, though they can, perhaps, afford to spend more time at it than human artists can. The Primary World, Reality, of elves and men is the same, if differently valued and perceived.

If Tolkien himself was under the influence of an elvish "glamour" then he would have imagined that he was creating Middle-earth mythology from his own imagination: when in "reality", he was being gifted with visions of the distant (pre-history) past. If this is true, then LOTR et al are not merely made up stories, but the myths the elves want us to hear. Why ? My personal reason for entertaining the possibility of this is that the Middle-earth sagas are apocalyptic in form: each major age ends in an apocalypse: and so will ours (if Judeo-Christian prophecy proves to be true): enjoying TLOTR prepares our minds for choosing our roles in the eventuality of our own apocalypse, ergo, it has a definite purpose in getting people to believe the unbelievable but true. And as this realates to the limited focus of this thread: dragons are positively inseparable from myth: if the elves and their "glamour" are real (though hidden), we must accept that dragons are as well.

[Crusader]

I like the way you put that about prophecies etc.

the LOTR sagas are meant to be our pre-history, the ending of the third age in the book is the beginning of the age of men, from then on, most other species left the world, whcih lead on to toady. At the start of the hobbit, JRRT describes the hobbits and says that we dont see them much these day because they hear us coming and hide, or something similar. The point is middle earth is our earth, maybe not physically, but definately metaphorically. The beginning of the fourth age resembles man's progression as a social being and the tiumpsh over our negative aspects.
However it was also meant to symbolise the struggle against the industrial society, but that battle wont be won for a long long time.

So in summary, dragons do exist. lol.

[Fincayra]

ehhh i think iut's all a matter of opinion. seriously, though, do we really want dragons to exist? to burn down villages and maul people and whatnot? we have enough going wrong in the world as it is. besides, seeing is knowing, and right, liv, believing is believing. but as long as there is no concrete proof that dragons did exist, then science cant be proved otherwise.

[Crusader]

hey the question is DID dragons exist, sure maybe they did, but now theyre all dead, so no problem. and as for science, its not a permanent thing, almost every breakthrough in science that is now gereally accepted truth had to distprove the current generally accepted truth.

[Orkin]

Just look at how our modern interpretations of "dinosaurs" has changed over the last hundred years, and that's with the aid of modern science. Is it so puzzling that ancient and medieval people looked at those bones and tried to imagine what they were.

In the end it's just a matter of names: "dragons", "dinosaurs". The beasts did not know either of these names when they drew breath. And perhaps both interpretations are equally wrong...

[Crusader]

Did you know that when the first full set of dinosaur bones were unearthed, the archeologist put them together with no specific reason, they just made up a creature with ribs on its thighs and a jaw in its forehead (maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but the basic prospect was true).

That may have somne relevance to the topic, or not, im just a bit bored to be honest.

[Lainovion]

Yes, you have sparked my intrique about a fire breathing beetle Gud Daedheloth, please post some more info on this creature .

[HaldirofLorien]

Do dragons exsist do unicorns exsist- i found a piece offlavour text on a magic the gathering trading card which pretty much sums this all up:-
" Unicorns dont care wether you belive in them any moe than you care if they belive in you"

[Orkin]

Had a fun experience with as close as get to dragon tamer in this age. A guy had a small private zoo in a local mall; turned out he did presentations for schools. He had a collection of parrots and a variety of reptiles including a pair of large Burmese pythons. In one large cage, he kept a six-foot long Asian water monitor named Bubbles. This is the species of lizard closest to the Komodo dragon. I got a rare moment of privilege sitting in the cage with her; she was actually quite tame and real sweetheart. For those who have lots of time, money, and space, and the desire to have a pet dragon, this would do it. She even sat on my lap like a cat!

[Thorin]

Can you find a picture of what it looks like?

I think it is a possiblity that Dragons did exist. But instead of thinking about the past... im gonna think in the future. Say... in 50 years... we'll for sure have the technology to go into someons genes and genitcally alter someone. You could change the colour of your hair without having it dyed. Whos to say that we wont be able to make super animals... squrrils that eat catterpilers instead of nuts( weird i know) Why not make our own species? Take the body of a lizard, and the wings of a bird and combind the genes and genetic code to create a flying lizard. Yout not to far off a Dragon. There are endless possiblities