Dune by Frank Herbert

[Radagast]

Anyone else love this book(s)? I just recently discovered the series (from the movies) and I was actually very surprised. I am not a big fan of Science Fiction, but these books are amazingly written. They are on the level with Tolkien, and there aren't any other books I would say are as good as Tolkien. I haven't managed to read them all, I got Dune and part of Dune Messiah under my belt, but trust me when I say they are a very hard book to put down.

The complex world Herbert creates is full of depth and diversity, and the characters are not ordinary and show lots of dimensions. The views every group (Atredies, Harkonnen, Fremen, Bene Gesserit) has on matters and their motives behind their actions I find are one of the most powerful aspects of this book. The landscape and how the Fremen (native people) deal with this terrain is incrediably realistic. The respect they hold to water and the techniques they design to conserve it is one of the many unique things about this book.

One thing I love about these books is the philosphy Herbert includes. I find the thoughts on politics and religion the most brilliant. Along with those is a rich sense of economics and enviromentalism. The emotion that every character experiences plays with the reader well.

Keep in mind while reading this book that their are alot of terms (which all help add to the reality of the book), so using the dictionary in the back of the book helps in understanding the plot alot. It's not a light read, but it definetly a worth while read.

[Lego]

I LOVED!!! Dune most amazing sci-fantasy book I ever read!!!!!! I also loved children of dune.

[Radagast]

From sparknotes.com:
(http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/dune/context.html)

Within the first few pages, Dune buries the reader in an avalanche of names—people, places, things, concepts, and an entirely new universe. Many of these new terms are explained, but many are not; the reader is forced to either wait until they are explained or try to figure things out using context clues. Most editions of Dune contain a glossary in the back, but it is not exhaustive, and there was no glossary when Dune was published serially in Startling Stories magazine in the early 1960s. It is comforting to realize that once we finish the book, almost everything makes sense. A second reading of Dune, particularly after reading the appendices, is often as enjoyable as the first, since we are now more aware of the implications of each event, small or large.

The novel immediately introduces us to Paul Atreides, who will serve as the main character of the story. Although Paul is fifteen years old when the story begins, he never really seems to act like a child, or even a teenager. When the Reverend Mother tests him, he shows some mild arrogance and petulance, but no more than any adult undergoing such a test. Paul's success with the test, and his resistance of a great amount of pain, makes him seem even older. One idea that is not fully explored in Dune is the Reverend Mother's suggestion that Paul may be an animal instead of a human being. Prior to the test, Paul recites to himself a kind of mantra that partially explains the differences between animals and human beings: "Animal pleasures remain close to sensation levels and avoid the perceptual… the human requires a background grid through which to see the universe… focused consciousness by choice, this forms your grid… bodily integrity follows nerve-blood flow according to the deepest awareness of cell needs… all things/cells/beings are impermanent… strive for flow-permanence within…." These semi- scientific, semi-religious phrases are puzzling, and since they are never really explained, it is difficult to understand the difference between the author's definitions of animal and human. Judging from the test, however, it seems that people like the Reverend Mother believe that some human beings act just like animals, and react to everything by instinct. What separates animals from human beings, she believes, is the ability for human beings to mentally close off pain and to use the rational mind to overcome instinctual and irrational impulses. The mantra that Paul recites seems to help him withstand the pain of the Reverend Mother's test.

The first few pages of Dune foreshadows that something terrible is in store for Duke Leto and the Atreides family. For example, the Reverend Mother warns that something terrible is going to happen to the Atreides family, and Paul's father, the Duke, will die soon. When she explains that Paul is the Kwisatz Haderach, we begin to think this may be an important role in the preservation of the Atreides family. The Reverend Mother's warnings, as well as her tears, concern Paul, who thinks she speaks "as though [his] father were dead." Furthermore, Paul's dream about the caves and the girl who calls him Usul also seems to be a premonition for Paul's future, as well as the future events of the novel.

Herbert writes much of the novel is in the third-person subjective perspective, meaning that most events are told as they happen to Paul, and we know what Paul thinks about everything. Although Paul is the main character, Herbert jumps freely from character to character within a single page, or even a few paragraphs. We are able to read what the Reverend Mother is thinking one moment, and then what Jessica is thinking the next moment. Herbert's narrative technique provides us with an extraordinary amount of information, but it also is very confusing for us, since we are inundated with so many strange names and concepts. Later in the novel, we will get more used to the technique, and we will be able to know what each character is thinking at any given time. The ultimate effect of such a technique is that it allows for the author to provide as much information as possible about his characters and the world they inhabit, but it removes much of the dramatic tension that might exist if the reader were less aware of the characters' intentions and motivations.

Heres a good anaylsis from sparknotes.com dealing with the first chapter of the novel, to give you a taste of what the story is like. Sparknotes has lots of information to help with understanding the book as well as looking past the story. Maybe if I get the time I post up a couple Theme Essays they have their site, some of them are very interesting to read.

[doleniel]

I read it a couple of years ago and liked it, I should probably reread it when I find time

[Skyanide]

I have read the entire series, and to me it would probably be a toss-up between Tolkien and Herbert for my favorite books. I find it amazing to what intricacy that Herbert designed his fantasy world.

Side note: Unfortunately, Tolkien has generally a broader appeal (age-group wise) and it would be hard for a film company to justify the expense of making the whole series to the extent and detail that would really satisfy me. The Sci-Fi Channel didn't do too bad, but it was just an inch or two from the mark.

[Glorfy_of_Imladris]

how many books are there?

[Skyanide]

IIRC, six.

Dune
Dune Messiah
Chidren of Dune
God Emperor of Dune
Heretics of Dune
Chapterhouse: Dune

These are the ones written by Frank Herbert, who died a number of years back (1986). His son has collaborated with another author on several books with the same theme, but I have not read any of these...yet...

[Radagast]

Originally posted by Skyanide
These are the ones written by Frank Herbert, who died a number of years back (1986). His son has collaborated with another author on several books with the same theme, but I have not read any of these...yet...

I doubt any of his son's are even close to the masterpieces his father created. But they still probably would be an interesting read, with lots of information.

Whats with great authors writing amazing books, dieing, then their son's adding/publishing more books? I think I figured out Tolkiens/Herberts secret!

[Radagast]

Quote from www.sparknotes.com :

**Spoilers from Dune, do not continue reading if you haven't read the book**

Religion vs Power

One of the more innovative aspects of Dune is its exploration of religion—something that, in the early 1960s, was rare in most science fiction. Many science fiction authors considered religion as an outdated institution that would eventually lose its direct control over society, as it had in the United States for decades. These authors assumed that the separation of church and state would only widen in the future. Frank Herbert had a different conception of the future. Not only does the universe of Dune employ a feudal government system that includes dukes and barons, but religion has a very strong presence in day-to-day existence and even in political decision-making.

In terms of the Imperium—the coalition of civilized planets and their populations—the most obvious presence of religion is found in the Bene Gesserit. The B.G. are familiar with numerous religious texts, from the Orange Catholic Bible to more cryptic texts such as the Great Mysteries. These texts play a significant role in defining the B.G. conception of the world. However, the B.G. is not without its sinister side; the existence of the Missionaria Protectiva reveals that the B.G. frequently exploit religion to protect their own members. The Missionaria Protective is the B.G.'s spread of contrived legends and prophecies to developing world. Years later, if a B.G. is stranded on the world, they can quote these legends, and they will earn the respect of the native inhabitants, who believe in the contrived legends.
The other significant use of religion is to control the Fremen. Kynes' father is the first person to exploit religion as a method of rallying the Fremen to his cause, the use of ecological alterations to turn Arrakis from a desert planet to a lush, green world. Ironically, in the Christian Bible, Adam and Eve were banished from paradise because they sinned and ignored their religion. Kynes' father and Kynes hope to bring paradise back to Arrakis using religion. Although Kynes wants to bring nature to Arrakis by making it a lush, green planet, this is unnatural—Arrakis is a naturally dry planet. The use of religion by Kynes' father to establish a new world is reminiscent of the later Green movement, and the methods of some fanatics who religiously fought for environmental rights.

Later, Paul also co-opts the Fremen using religion. He pursues the same goals as Kynes, but he also uses his power over the Fremen as their "messiah" to gain control of the entire Imperium. Religion provides a degree of comfort to almost everyone in the novel, including Jessica and Paul. Paul does seem to have mystical abilities that go above and beyond a simple heightened awareness or intelligence. Instead, it is Paul's adept use of religion, and the calculated placements of contrived legends by the B.G., that allow Paul to control such a large group of people, and earn his position as Emperor.

[Radagast]

Over this Christmas break I am re-reading Dune. Its truly an amazing piece of art. One thing that I just noticed works amazingly well is the jumping back and forth of characters points of view throughout a chapter. Very, very hard to write that and still produce a clear chapter. Herbert does it excellently.

[Aemon Targaryen]

Ive been meaning to read these for so long, but Ive been side-tracked. For some reason I find it neccessary to re-read all my other faves before doing anything else

[Radagast]

Well, I definately reccomend that you eventually read these. Excellent novels. No words can describe them, other than the book itself.

[urbanharlequin]

I read the first book over 8 years ago. That was before I became a LotR fan... addict...fan...whatever, it's all the same. But the first book of Dune was very good and I like the fact that he had a history to all his social groups. I read it shortly after the movie came out. That was when I became disappointed, they tried to do too much in too a little time. One day I may read the rest of the series. very Tolkein like with the detail of the different socio groups and Herbert does make it clear why there is a conflict between them.

[Turin]

is this sci fi or fantasy?

[Scrinlord]

Herbert is Sci-Fi, but with a slightly fantastic bent in some areas. It is much closer to Sci-Fi than fantasy, but neither genre really encompasses the totality of Dune. I absolutly love the Dune novels, I have read all of them, and am in the middle of "the Machine Crusade" right now.

I will prolly get flamed for saying it, but I like Dune, I think more than I like even LOTR.