Quiver

[Harrison]

Hello again.

I am on the brink of buying a longbow. I was wondering if you guys have any patters and/or tips for making a quiver. Thank you in advance for any help you can give me.

~Gamigar~

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
What type of quiver did you have in mind? A simple side quiver is basically just a leather tube with two attachment points connecting to a common ring. You affix the ring to your belt so that the arrows, nock end, face forward. Some folks choose to wear this style quiver on their bow side, others on the draw side (my preference). My stick up quiver in the gallery is an example.

Hip pocket quivers, designed to fit inside the back pocket of your pants, is nothing more than what the name implies, a leather pocket. It's just a bit smaller than the standard back pocket of a pair of jeans. Of course its longer so it sticks out the top. Very simple to make.

I have a picture of a model that is a variation of the hip pocket called the hipster in the gallery. This style hangs off your belt. Simple to make. It's made like a gun holster.

My personal favorite is the back style. I have used back styles with two over the shoulder straps like a back pack, but I prefer the single shoulder strap with the fork in front. This is like my Elven quiver in the gallery. The second strap in front holds the quiver in place better than a single strap does.

I also have a picture of a quiver patterned after a 15th century Italian quiver. I set it up so it could hang off a belt like the side quiver above, but also made an over the shoulder strap for it.

As for patterns, if you choose to make the simple side quiver, get some poster board and make a tube out of it. Then cut the top and bottom flat and slice straight down one side. When you open it up you have your pattern. I choose about a 1 inch overlap for my quivers, but if you used 6 oz or heavier leather you could butt sew the seam. If you choose to overlap the seam be sure you make the paper tube a little larger in diameter. Then when you do the oever lap the diameter of the resulting quiver will be what you intended.

If you would like to do any of the above quivers, let me know. I have patterns for all of them. I can scan the hipster and hip pocket but the Elven style poses a problem. My scanner is not large enough to handle it. I may be able to copy it at the office supply store, reduce it and post the pattern. You would then have to enlarge it to size.

As for leather weight, I would recommend 6 - 7 oz. I've used heavier but it seems unnceccessary and is heavy. A somewhat flexible quiver is OK I think. For a finishing touch you can put a disk of sheep's wool inside on the bottom and around the top. This helps to quiet the arrows when you move. You can use synthetic sheep's wool fabric you can get at JoAnn's or any fabric store. Cheaper. I've been lining the inside of my arm guards with the synthetic wool for extra padding and comfort.

[Christophe of Grey]

I just uploaded my newest quiver to the gallery. I get bored with stuff and make new stuff for me.

[Harrison]

Thanks a lot. I need to think about which one I want to make. I'll back to you on the subject.

[Harrison]

Okay, I want something like the basketweave quiver but with the proper straps to hang on my back like the elvish one.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
You got it. I'll have to take the original pattern down to the office supply store to make a reduced copy of it. The Elven straps are simple. Basically one strap that comes over your shoulder then a fitting in mid chest for the forked strap. Both straps attach at the bottom of the quiver. I lace them into the same holes I use to lace the bottom of the quiver on. The shoulder strap is laced into the seam laces that hold the quiver together in it's tube shape. You may have noticed that the strap flares to about 2 1/2 inchs wide at the top and tapers to 1 inch. I've been using 3/4 inch three way harness fittings so I have to further reduce the width of the strap to attach it to the fitting. (I did not like the bulky look of the 1 inch fitting!) Basically this means you now have more "realestate" to work with. The Moors had a term for this. Basically it meant the abhorence of an open space. That's why they did things of such fantastic detail. I just call it a canvas waiting for something!

I'll post here when I get the pattern loaded into the gallery.

[Harrison]

Thanks. Hey, this kind of off topic but how do you get the bottoms on your mugs?

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
Oh that's easy - they come that way! Not much use without a bottom. My adult beverage of choice would just fall onto the ground. What a waste!!! HAHAHAHAHA Sorry, I had to.

The bottoms are sewn on. The process is to sew on the cover while the tankard is inside. This way I can pull the cover up snug and it form fits the tankard shape. Then I pop the tankard out and sew on the bottom. While the whole project is still damp, I put the tankard back inside and let it dry. Then I pop the tankard out again and sew on the handle. Put the tankard back in the leather cover and do the finish work. From start to finish each tankard has about 20 minutes work in it not counting the tooling and finishes applied. But that 20 minutes takes at least 2 days - drying times and highly dependent upon weather conditions!

[Harrison]

Oh, I wasn't aware that they were just covers.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
OK, you asked. Here's the evolutionary history of what has become known as the Christophe Tankard. When I went to my first SCA event, the lady that introduced us told us that we had to be "period". We had to have names, garb (clothes), etc. She loaned my a leather tankard that was "period". Period tankards were simply leather tubes with either leather bottoms or wooden bottoms. (Little known fact - If you have an early English personna it is incorrect to use a ceramic tankard. England does not have clay sufficient for firing or making cermaic anything! It had to be importened from the contenent/Europe.) To keep the tankard from leaking, it is coated inside with bee's wax. Very period. Problem is, anything, adult beverage of choice, soda, water, anything you put in it tastes of bee's wax! OK, I could live with that, but........ On Sunday morning, as we were packing up, I went to the feast hall to get myself a tankard of coffee. Don't get ahead of me here! I took one drink. It took be two weeks to get all the bee's wax out of my mustache! So one day, we were living in Florida at the time, while sitting out by the pool, I was looking at my double walled plastic mug I was drinking water out of and began to think. I could just cut the handle off and cover it with leather. Viola! A "period" tankard. And so, the Christophe tankard was born. In Trimaris, the Florida kingdom of the SCA, many have these tankards and refer to them as Christophe Tankards. A name they came up with, not me. In fact, blowing my own horn here, they have become a sought after item. With the double walled plastic tankard inside, in Florida, I can pack the tankard with ice, pour in a soda, and still have ice in the tankard two hours latter. Even during the summer! Try that with a "real" leather tankard or a clay tankard. Ain't going to happen!!! My tankards have been left on car roofs when the driver drove off and survived. The only tankard that was actually broken was a young gent who had it hanging off his belt when he was getting checked out by the marshal. The marshal asked him if he was going to take the takard off his belt before fighting. He said yes, then proceeded to walk straight onto the lyst. The first blow - bamm, cracked tankard! Well, duhh!!!!! I just retired my first I made for myself after 7 years of service. Got tired of the design. I do that. I've got several pictures of them in the gallery.

Since then I've progressed to covering shot glasses, Altoid boxes for a very cool Roman dice game. One of my favorites is an acrylic beer glass. Those tall slim waisted glasses they serve beer in. It was difficult to get the curve just right but it feels wonderful in the hand. I also made some out of plastic glasses that had "bands" on them so that they just "fit" right into you hand. Very nice in the hand! I prefer plastic so that if you drop it it doesn't break. Besides, if anyone is close enough to look inside your tankard and see it is plastic inside and they are stupid enough to comment, they are also close enough to bop! I have also covered cigar boxes lined inside with velvet or suede as jewlery boxes. Gave one to a sitting king. Upon stepping down his queen and him nearly went to blows over who was going to keep the box!

[Harrison]

Cool.

[Christophe of Grey]

Yeah, cool now. But a bee's wax coated mustache? Not cool......... Can we say OWWW!!!!

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
Just uploaded patterns for the Elven style quiver. I put notes on the patterns as well as in the descriptions in the gallery. You may want to adjust the strap lengths to better fit you. The trickiest part of this quiver is remembering which way it's going to go when you trace the pattern onto the leather. Remember, you mark on the inside of the leather, so the backside of the pattern becomes the outside of the quiver. Same thing with the arm guard.

The pattern will require some hardware. For the quiver, 2 one inch buckles, and one three way harness hardware. These have three rectangular "loops" joined in the middle with a roundish part. You can see this on the Elven quiver in the gallery. Legolas used a cool Elven buckle here. For the arm guard you will need three 1/2 or 3/4 in buckles. Of course rivets as well. I lace my quivers using standard leather lacing. The kind sold as leather shoe laces. If you choose to line the quiver top and bottom with sheep's wool, the line on the quiver body pattern shows where to cut. I use a synthetic sheep's wool on the inside of my arm guards for comfort as well as extra padding (hopefully I won't smack my arm that hard!).

Good luck, post pictures, and if you have questions, just ask.

[Harrison]

Thanks.

[Harrison]

I see that you coloured your leather for the quiver. Luckily I can buy leather already that colour from some amish people up by my grandparents' house. I can get a roughly 60" by 15" piece for $80. Thanks for patterns again. For the quiver bottom it says actual size. Is it supposed to be about 3" across not including the flaps?

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
Yes, the bottom is about 3 inches across not including the flaps. BTW each flat has two holes punched in it, side by side. They will then match up with the hole marks on the bottom of the quiver body.

Pre-colored leather is OK as you will be stamping the leather. When you do stamping you can get good results without dampening the leather. I would cut the edge of the leather. If it is a greyish color then it's chrome tanned leather. This type of leather is semi-water resistent and usually quite difficult to stamp. You can't carve it though, as you can never dampen it. For tooling you need veg tanned leather, which when cut is a light beige color.

[Harrison]

No, it's not gray. It's a slightly lighter shade of the stuff on top.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
Yeah, I would have expected that. It just doesn't sound right that the Amish would be using chromium chemicals to tan their leather. BTW chrome tanning takes about 3 days, whereas vegetable tanning (veg tan) takes about 3 weeks. With that sort of time difference you can understand why most leather is chrome tanned now days. Of course these are only two of the many ways to tan leather. The American indians tanned leather typically by smoke tanning or brain tanning. Some day, when I have nothing else to do, I'm going to try some tanning with these methods.

[Harrison]

Yeah, they specialize in harnesses for horses. It's quite a cool little shop they have. On the bottom floor they have all their stuff for sale and then the top floor is where they make all of there stuff so they have big racks filled with leather and then a bunch of bins filled with spots and rivets. They have automated spot and rivet setters. And then they have a big heavy sewing machine to sew leather. They also have a leather splitting machine.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
That sounds pretty cool. Do they actually tan the leather there or nearby or do they get it from another supplier? WinstonSalen, NC, near where I live used to be a Moravian town in colonial days. It was known for, among other things, its tannery. While they have a "living history" town set up now, they don't have a tannery. They have a cobler's shop in which they make shoes and other very small projects. Not overly impressive though, sad to say!

Those leather sewing machines save a considerable amount of time, not to mention saving your hands. BUT......they are typically quite expensive. As they are Amhish, are their sewing machines electric motor driven or hand operated? Or maybe they power them some other way, water wheel, foot treddle, ????

I've heard that the tanning process can be/is(?) quite stinky.

[Harrison]

I think there are some rules that allow them to use generators.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
AH, so it's THOSE Amish! Actually I believe there are different sects of Amish. Some are very strict and don't use phones or anything mechanical, like cars, etc. Then there are those who stay true to their religion but use some modern conveniences like motors, phones, etc. Sounds like your leather suppliers are of the latter group.

[Harrison]

Yep, that's what they are. Some of them actually have phone booths that look like outhouses outside their houses.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
DISCLAIMER: Cheesy goodness figured this out long ago, hopefully you have too - wicked sense of humor.

I guess that puts a new twist on the saying "have to see a man about a horse".

[Harrison]

I have another question about the quiver. Does the bottom go on so the flaps are visible from the underside of the quiver so it's easier put the lace in?

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
Yes. Fold the flaps down, then lace it on. When you're finished the bottom should recess the height/distance of the length of the flaps. Saying it differently, if you think about a paper cup, the bottom is slightly raise from the actual bottom of the cup, as measured by the sides. Same idea here. I'll admit, the first time I made this quiver design I turned the flaps up which meant I had to do the lacing from the inside. NO! NOT FUN! If you turn the flaps down you can lace the bottom on entirely from the outside - that is, you don't have to reach into the quiver to do the lacing. I usually lace the quiver starting at the top, then have enough lace to split the remainder at the bottom to lace the bottom on. That is, I can lace the entire quiver with one piece of lace. The bottom flaps may slightly overlap. No biggie. Nobody sees them anyway. After I lace up the quiver, then I add the straps. I do this by using a second piece of lace for each of the three straps - 2 bottom straps and one over-the-shoulder strap.

[Harrison]

That's what I thought.

[Harrison]

I just made an awesome discovery, my mom has a little thing for embossing for her scrapbooks that I can use for depressing intaglios into my leather. I'm gonna use this to carve an elvish leaf design around my next pair of vambraces and possibly my quiver.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
I have a buddy in Florida who does some of the most detailed carving I have ever seen. He makes most of his own tools because he can't buy tools small enough. He buys large nails, then shapes the tip to the desired tool shape. I have made tools out of wooden dowels. They don't last as long as metal tools but the also work. In period they often made their tools out of orange wood. Small grain and medium hardness. You might consider that as well.

[Harrison]

Do you do your tooling before or after you put the finishing coat on your leather? Also, what do you use to apply your dye to your leather? I've used a brush so far but it's just so hard to get the dye to be nice and even.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
I do all the tooling/carving prior to applying the finish. The leather takes up the water, casing, better without a finish, and sometimes the finish would change if water were applied afterwards, as in tooling after finish. This would be particularly true for finishes like antiques which are water based. I have also found that attempting to tool after the finish is applied loads up the face of the tools. i.e. they become sticky and the finish often comes off on the tool. Stamping first when using antiques as the finish is mandatory as the tool leaves the depressions that the anituqing gets into to highlight the effect/pattern.

As for application I usually use cotton swabs as sold by Leather Factory or Tandy. Sometimes for large areas I use these new sponge brushes. For a large area you have to work fast, even and keep the brush and area wet. It's a bit tricky. I usually don't get to fussy about slight variations in color. This gets smoothed out when I apply the Atom Wax or Super Sheene coat. These two finishes re-dissolve the dye and help to smooth it out. With the Atom Wax I have actually poured a little in another bottle then added alcohol dye of the color I want the finished project to be. Then I hand rub in the atom wax with dye mixture on using several coats. The result is a very nice deep shine.

For a great deal of my work though, I actually paint on the dye. That is, I use paint brushes to apply the dye. In the gallery I have several belts with multi-colors on them. It is my choice to use a dye if I can get the color I want. I use paint as a second choice, as it tends to chip and/or flake off with use. As such, I wind up painting the dye into the very small areas on lots of my projects.

[Harrison]

What are some examples of projects that you have used super sheen on? I'd like to see the results before I buy some. Also, I was looking at the Satin Sheen and it said that it was to spray on horses...but you said that it was for leather? I don't quite understand.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
Here's one http://gallery.fantasyvault.net/showphoto.php?photo=243&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=4. But pretty much anything in the gallery from Sword Scabbard on was done with Super Sheene. The newer stuff, i.e. Celtic DogMan quiver was done with Atom Wax.

[Christophe of Grey]

Forgot. Satin Sheene is made by Tandy and is for use on leather.

[Harrison]

But on Tandy it says that it's just for spraying on horses for shows and stuff.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
I know there's stuff the horse folks put on their horse's hoofs to make them shine. Maybe we are looking at two different things (although it would work on horses as well as leather). Here's a link to what I was talking about http://tandyleather.com/prodinfo.asp?number=2200900&variation=&aitem=6&mitem=13.

[Harrison]

Oh, yep. We were looking at different things. I was looking in Conditioners and Tans.

[Harrison]

I've got my paper template all cut out in wrapping paper because it was the only thing big enough around the house. I taped it all up including the bottom and it fits great. I'm gonna get some poster board and then trace and cut it in that. I haven't made the paper straps yet but I'm gonna at some point.

[Harrison]

Okay, I've been trying to make a poster board cut out of the quiver but I'm having some trouble getting the bottom to fit. Any tips, Christophe?

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
Not quite sure how to respond. You said everything fit when you made it out of paper but now it dosen't with the poster board. Leather is much more forgiving than poster board. Sorry if some of this seems obvious but.... The flaps on the bottom go on the inside of the quiver tube, pointing down. Often they will slightly overlap each other as you go around the tube. Sometimes the "flat" part of the bottom winds up actually being slightly crowned. That is, crested upwards from the quiver bottom. This actually works out OK as when the arrows are dropped in it cushions them. The quiver tube should overlap only about 1 inch when you form it into a tube. If you find the bottom is still too tight, just make the cuts in towards the middle for the flaps slightly longer. This will make the flaps longer but reduce the diameter of the bottom piece. Let me know if that helps.

[Harrison]

Okay, thanks.

[Harrison]

Wow, thanks for the advice. It worked, I laced everything up with ribbon just to see if it fits and it fits extraordinarily.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
OK, you're on the way. I use lace material like they sell for boot laces. I get it at Leather Factory or Pennsic from the leather merchants. I can get real long ones in either place. I had an order for a quiver though, the Elven quiver in the gallery, where the buyer didn't like the look of the leather laces. I used lacing material instead. It was a bit of a hassle lacing though as this material is not designed to take much stress. I broke a few pieces before I figured out just how much and how tight I could pull it. Very frustrating. I wound up lacing the project about six times before I was finished! Tandy sells differnt types of needles to thread laces with. I've used this http://tandyleather.com/prodinfo.asp?number=119000&variation=&aitem=4&mitem=21 type which I prefer a lot. If the lace breaks the needle is still useable. I also have used this type http://tandyleather.com/prodinfo.asp?number=119301&variation=&aitem=10&mitem=21 which is great until the lace breaks inside the needle. You actually thread the lace into the needle making a nice smooth entry/exit from the lace hole. Problem is, if it breaks off without enough to unscrew it from the needle, the needle is now useless because the threaded hole is plugged. Obviously I'm recommending the first choice.

BTW, Saturday I leave for 2 glorious weeks at Pennsic. I will not be able to log on to this forum while there (too big for my PDA). If you have additional questions email me at jatking05@sprintpcs.com. That goes to my PDA, which, as a good nerd, I will have with me.

[Harrison]

Okay, thanks for the tips again. I just used ribbon so I had some idea as to how it would work. I'm gonna use leather lacing like you said. Thanks for letting me e-mail you. I'll try to e-mail you sparingly.

[Harrison]

I just ordered some veg tan leather. It's a double shoulder piece about 7-1/2 square feet. I got it for $44.00 including shipping and handling. I also added to my Tandy Shopping List a 1-1/4" belt buckle for the quiver. I'm gonna do my bottom straps a little bit different than you did, that's why I only have one on my list.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
Paterns are really just "suggestions" on how one can make the item. Cool. Is the buckle going in the center of your chest in front? I'm wondering how there will be adjustment built into the straps. Of course, if you are the only one who will be using the quiver, once it's adjusted to you, you will probably never change the strap settings. Except if you change your clothing per seasons, i.e. bulky stuff in winter, light stuff in summer.

Have you looked into that magazine I recommended? Reason I ask is they have periodic contests for young leather artists. The direction you are going and the skills you are developing you should enter. They have some cool prizes. Plus you get the recognition for your work.

[Harrison]

I'm going to put the buckle the same place on the strap that you did, it's just going to be that only one adjusts and the other just stays the same. No, I haven't looked into that magazine, but now that you mention it I will.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
Please make sure you post some pictures when you get it finished!

[Harrison]

Okay. What was the name of the magazine?

[Christophe of Grey]

Gamigar,
The Leather Crafters and Saddlers Journal, 331 Annette Court, Rhinelander, WI., 54501-2902. Subscription is $29 per year, six issues. Worth every penny!

[Harrison]

Thanks.

[Harrison]

Okay, I finished my quiver, I'll have some pictures up somewhere soon.

[CrowCallerWoman]

Hello again.

I am on the brink of buying a longbow. I was wondering if you guys have any patters and/or tips for making a quiver. Thank you in advance for any help you can give me.

~Gamigar~

Here is a link to one article on quiver making:
http://frugalarcher.tripod.com/plainsqvr.html

:draught:

I have recently made my own with an old pair of jeans (not period looking, but I am unconventional and use what I have on hand to avoid buying anything expensive).


As soon as I figure out how to add some pictures, I will let you see my handi-work. ;)

[CrowCallerWoman]

Okat I think I got this figured out. Here are links to pictures of the quiver that I fashioned using the intructions from the webpage I posted a link to in the previous msg. The metal clip that I use to hang on my shorts was a metal wreath holder...now that is resourceful! I added some padding in the bottom because it is just chipboard on the inside and I don't want the sharp points to eventually poke through (this also serves to clean the tips because the padding is pretty fluffy).

http://www.geocities.com/rexenne/quiver.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/rexenne/quiver_charm.JPG

I made it from an old pair of jeans (I save them as they wear out, yah never know when you'll need a little denum fabric...cheaper than buying it off the bolt!). :D

[Harrison]

Here's the quiver.

[Christophe of Grey]

Gmigar,
Nice job on the quiver. On thestrap closeup I noticed you used rivets. Usually I just punch two holes then lace the strap in using the same lacing that closes up the tube. How do you like the back style quiver? I used my Italian side style most of the time at Pennsic and found I prefer it. The arrows are easier to get out. Usually with the back style I'm bending over to the side trying to "shake out" the final couple of arrows! I saw a couple of different ways to keep te back style in place - changes in the straping patterns - that I might try.

PS: What's with the name change?

[Harrison]

Well I started out with the lacing but when I was cutting off the excess I accidentally cut off both ends so I had to start a whole new strand for the rest. It was okay for a while but it got really loose so I just decide to put rivets in it. There were so many inconsistancies in the construction of it. I think I'm gonna make a side quiver. My dad wants me to make him one with a horseshoe on it, because of our family's coat of arms. I changed my name because I was getting tired of Gamigar and I thought Tirian sounded better.

[Bard]

that is an awesome quiver.
nice job

[waenlotien]

Hail King Tirian,
nicely done on the quiver!
I just got some more leather so will be working on something soon, not sure what yet LOL


Crowcallerwoman,
nice work, very resourceful to say the least.

Cristophe,
sorry I have been gone so long but work has been a major drag LOL
when i got back from my vacation, someone quit, then i had to take her to mexico, driving all the wya down uugggggg. then came back and have been registering for school along with working ungodly hours. but now things are back to normal.